Wednesday, September 30, 2009
Island Dreams
Posted by Mary Cashiola on Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM
When I think about relaxing on the island, I'm not thinking of Mud Island. But maybe one day, with some of the improvements being discussed right now, I will.
Architects from Looney Ricks Kiss (LRK) presented three alternatives for an island land-use plan last night at the Memphis Botanic Gardens. Possibilities included a pedestrian bridge, a ferris wheel, a skatepark, play areas, restaurants, and even a continuation of Poplar Avenue over the Wolf River Harbor.
Each of the three alternatives designated portions of the island for civic use, culture, green space, and recreation and entertainment, instead of designating specific uses such as an aquarium or skatepark.
The first alternative will extend Greenbelt Park south and have a lot of green space and areas for recreation. That might mean a skatepark, a playground, or a carousel. There would also be steps down to the river and improvements to the amphitheater.
This alternative would mean minimal public investment (minimal is a relative term here) and the impact, though it would pay for itself, would also be minimal (again, relative).
The second alternative also extends Greenbelt Park south but would re-align the road closer to the Mississippi River. There would be recreational uses around the marina, as well as possibly some restaurants, retail, or even residential space. This plan also includes a skatepark near the tip of Mud Island and a ferris wheel where someone could see the view both north and south of the Mississippi River.
"Right now, there's not a lot of way to enjoy that boating atmosphere," said Steve Auterman from LRK.
Alternative two, which would mean more public and private investment, also includes a pedestrian bridge near the Beale Street Landing to the tip of Mud Island.
"As a tourist, you could walk from Beale Street to the island instead of getting in your car and driving three miles," Auterman said.
The third alternative also extends Greenbelt Park, but it would also fill in the current marina to allow Poplar Avenue to cross the harbor. A new marina would line the length of the island. Alternative three is the most urban of the alternatives, with a ferris wheel, a museum, and more restaurants and retail.
"Wolf River becomes a harbor in the middle of the city," Auterman said, "not on the edge of the city."
The third alternative would have about the same amount of impact as the second, but would require more private dollars and less public ones.
There were some questions about how the uses should be divided. Skatelife Memphis founder Aaron Shafer asked that a skatepark shouldn't be segregated from the rest of the park's uses.
"We're trying to promote skateboarding as a family friendly activity," he said. "Twenty years ago, we were punks. Now we've grown up."
Other citizens were concerned about the reliance on retail or restaurants since the two nice restaurants on the island are not open to the public, only for private events.
Auterman said the team had talked to the restaurants' management.
"The success of the restaurants is dependent on: Would they be open year-round? Since the park is not open year-round and it is closed after a certain point in the day, you're limited in the amount of clientele you can have," he said.
The Riverfront Development Corporation should have all this up on its website soon, but there is also a second public meeting tomorrow, Thursday, October 1st, at 5:45 p.m. at Harbor Landing. But the plan is just the first step.
"The planning team from LRK will take the input from the meetings and from the website and bring in the financial realities and then present it to the RDC board," said Benny Lendermon, head of the Riverfront Development Corporation. From there, the plan will go to the city administration and then to the City Council for funding.
"If the economy is good and money is not as tight, we'll probably do more projects. If the economy is bad, we might have a hard time getting a project approved," Lendermon said.
Comments (36)
Showing 1-36 of 36
Yeah, a carousel and a ferris wheel. That will add to the allure of the giant hick store in the pyramid. What more could you ask for, pronto pups too!
like
dislike
The carousel would definitely be a great addition.
DON"T put a skate park there. That would have only limited appeal to a few skaters. The park needs to appeal to more people.
Extend the trolley to the island. Go across at the Auction St bridge and come back at the raised Poplar or Beale Street level.
Memphis has more than "a few" skaters. There are definitely more skaters who will make repeat visits to a skatepark on MI than people who will want to ride a carousel more than once.
Wouldn't realigning the road to be closer to the river just mean that it would be underwater and impassable for several weeks every year? Did they have a plan to deal with that?
These ideas seem rather timid. If you want to bring people, you've got to make them go - wow! Not - whatever.
Ferris Wheel = eye sore. Restaurants = ZzZzZ. Retail = Peabody Place = Failure. Boar Hunting Preserve = WOW!
As long as they keep all the really expensive, poorly built houses in Harbor Town, I don't care what they do with the rest of the "island." If it weren't for that hilarious neighborhood sucking up dollars from the neo-yuppie set, there'd be a shit ton more competition (and thus higher prices) for the better midtown houses.
People keep shooting down the Ferris wheel. have none of you been to London? The Eye is awesome and a great way to see the city and its surroundings. I would need to see the type of Ferris wheel they are thinking about before I pass judgment.
A real WOW attraction would allow you to shoot water balloons across the Wolf River at City Hall. Maybe the world’s biggest sling shot?
How about making it a prison for our crooked politicians AND then film the reality show!
How about a nice house boat community in the marina. Make it nice and you would sell out every space. Put the carousel from the fair grounds, don't limit the skate park to skate boards on(roller skating is for everyone). A ferris wheel is a great visual. It does need to be a full day of entertainment at least.
I've had a little experience with public input meetings in my 20+ years of public advocacy and I've got to say that the RDC has mastered the "dog and pony show".
What we got at the public meeting was a bunch of pretty pictures of totally different types of waterfronts (mostly ones with stable waterlines) including a scenic lake somewhere in Oregon, the canal in San Antonio, TX and the super expensive bridges and ferris wheel in London, England.
We were shown 3 options, from which we were supposed to choose our favorite. Nobody seemed particularly happy with any one of the 3 and thus we will all be forced to write detailed comments, picking out the elements we like from each of the proposals presented.
Despite the fact that the public has soundly rejected the idea of residential development, the RDC/LR&K have kept it in all but one of the "new" refined proposals.
RDC seems bent on developing residential/dining/retail "mixed use" no matter what, drawing numerous comments that developing these services is putting the cart before the horse. There seemed to be consensus amongst those in attendance that public amenities--skatepark, jogging trails, aquarium, improved music venue, enhanced Riverwalk--should be the first focused step and that the private enterprise portion should follow on the demand created by traffic.
2 of the proposals included foot bridges across the Wolf at the southern tip of the island and vast majority in attendance supported this.
One plan suggested extending Poplar onto the island and this was roundly rejected. This same proposal also suggested very expensive fill of the harbor and intensive retail/residential development.
2 things were absolutely clear: the public wants more recreational amenities and better access via a pedestrian/bike bridge at the south end of the island. In short, those in attendance want a place to play with their families--food and drink will follow the bodies of their own accord.
And, yes, we want a skatepark.
There.
Hmmm... build a giant ferris wheel, and when it goes defunct, run a 3-way skycar gondola thingy from the Pyramid to the Top of the 100 to the rusted hulk of the wheel.
I wish the RDC would take a hint: the public wants a skatepark, as evidenced by skaters attending the public meeting and asking for it. It's not rocket science, RDC.
80-90% of the attendees that supported the skate park at these meetings were there FOR the skate park and yet the Aquarium was shown as a sample signature venue while the skatepark was shuffled away in under recreational venues. The aquarium recieved 5 votes, skate park 200 votes so represent it accordingly in the final report.
If the final report resembles the powerpoint presentation, then it will be a gross miss-representation of why these meetings were well attended as well as what the public was there to support. As TennesseDrew said, keep it simple stupid.
In today's dollars, the city already spent $100 million dollars to build the River park. Don't think this big price tag has been lost on the city council because it hasn't been lost on the public.
The council will ask to make do with little and revitalize and recapture that 100 million. Keeping it simple means: extend the greenbelt, put the playground back and build a premier skate park (FIRST). Do that, show that you were successful and then build the land bridge from BSL to the South tip. Then and only then, maybe some smart business entrepreneurs will look at the River park as a place they could MAYBE start a local restuarant using the EXISTING infrastructure.
Anyone who is touting big development and immediate success is simply looking to cash in on the front end and whatever follows is not their concern. Kudos to the group ( LRK and the Consiliency group) hosting the public meetings for hearing this from the public.
I think they know the public wants a skate park- they are probably the most outspoken minority group when it comes to the Mud Island workshops. The questions are and always have been is Mud Island the appropriate place, where would it be located and how big would it be.
As for the residential development- I took some time to talk to a few of the LRK employees and it seems their main motivation for including residential and commercial development was to provide a means to pay for the public improvements being employed. I for one appreciated the fact that they seem to understand one of the critical issues involving this project (something the skaters and park only people seem to forget), that is that no one seems willing to fork out the cash to make any changes a reality. The skaters aren’t willing to provide the necessary capital, the park only folks can’t raise the money privately and the city is understandably wary of investing significant amounts of additional public funds towards any improvements for the park. The design team seems to be trying to include the ability to use private funding via development as a way for us to have our cake and eat it too. If the skaters and FFOR can raise the necessary money so that we can avoid using purely public financing, then maybe we could avoid private development.
Did we ask the baseball players to the 40 public athletic fields in our city?
Did we ask the football and basket ball players to fund their own stadiums and courts at their schools?
Should we have? No, because they are passtimes entrenched in the American culture and healthy outlets that were very relevant and still are to the youth and adults. The reality is skateboarding has joined these ranks and has had a tough time earning the respect from generations unfamiar with it ascension to a national passtime.
Memphis needs more positive outlets and Mud Island is place to show that we have made a shift in our culture when it comes to healthy living. The cost of the skate park is paid in retaining and attracting talent and keeping people from becoming obese. This is how our leadership should view these project. It's not just about skateboarders it's about moving this city forward in a direction that is more inline with what is going on in the rest of the nation's best cities. Can we work toward that goal and not get stuck using the wrong set of eoonomic tools?
And yes we will seek private funding from Foundations and businesses who understand that a skate park is gift for Mud Island and the City of Memphis. They have done their research and know what's going on in the rest of world outside of Memphis.
What evidence is there that the construction of a skate park will result in the retention and attraction of talent? Show me that and I will be right behind you. But I keep hearing that argument and can't find much evidence to support it.
I appreciate your enthusiasm for your pastime. My reference is from living in NYC, where there wasn't a big push to build skate parks in Central Park, the Battery, or in the new West Side riverfront parks as a way to retain all the talent being lost by the absence of the facilities. I did not realize Memphis’ brain drain was based in such a large part on its lack of skate parks. If a lack of such a facility was truly seen as a major impediment to our city by so many (including private businesses as you stated) I think we would have seen more progress on its re-introduction to the area. I understand that the city’s former skate park failed in Cordova, due in part to rising rents and the inability to pass those costs on to the users. I also appreciate that it can be an attraction, as shown by the Louisville experience, I think it is also being over-inflated as critical component to our riverfront’s future. With the significant investment that is imminent at Shelby Farms, I am surprised it has not become the focus of the skating communities push for a park. Yes, I think Memphis needs one- no, I am not convinced Mud Island is the best location.
Urbanist and others concerned about the skate park: Please come to the meeting tonight if you can and we'll chat some more. 5:45 pm , inside the Riverpark. It's critical that we have this type of dialogue and I appreciate your points but they will likely be lost if they are not voiced in a public discussion forum like the one that will be made available to us tonight.
Skateparks are big ticket, world class attractions that cost very little to build and almost nothing to maintain. It has an attraction that far surpasses a Ferris Wheel or carousel. Want proof? How many families drive form here to Louisville to ride a Ferris Wheel? How many families drive from here to there for the world class skatepark in downtown Louisville? Tons. If you don't believe me, just make the drive yourself. You cannot discount a world class skatepark as fringe attraction. They have a huge draw and attract people from far away. Even small quality (that is an important distinction) parks have a large impact. Talk to any of the thousands of skateboarders here in Memphis (they don't bite) and they have probably made the hour+ drive down to Oxford many times just to skate their small but well built skatepark. More travel to Nashville where the park is a little larger. If you build a world class skatepark on Mud Island, I can guarantee you that it will draw people from all over the country.
Many skaters like myself are older now and have families that we bring along on these trips. Or conversely a family will often travel to someplace that their skating children would like to go. As a family trip they will do many other things besides just skate. The skatepark brings them here where they can see all the other wonderful things that Memphis has to offer. We need more than barbeque and Graceland to attract folks here (not that there's anything wrong those. I love them both.)
You also need to consider the skatepark, along with other recreational activities like jogging and biking trails, make a huge impact in the quality of life here in Memphis. That is the sticking point that has kept young professionals and new businesses away. We have a low cost of living, a vast array of quality entertainment and a centralized location that would make us very attractive to young talent they would either move here or stay here if it were not for the quality of life. A skatepark is not going to magically transform the city into the most attractive place to live in America, but it will speak out loud that the city is trying to improve the lives of it's citizens. That alone is worth the price of construction.
As for location, I'll say this again, Mud Island needs the skatepark far more than the skatepark needs Mud Island. We are not advocating the skatepark solely for the sake of the skaters of Memphis (though it is very much needed), a skatepark is your lowest cost/highest impact feature to insure a huge draw and many repeat visits. It is a unique, under used location that would provide an experience unlike anything you could find around the globe. We can ill afford not to put a skatepark on the island.
None of us are advocating a skatepark to the exclusion of other attractions. There is plenty of room on the island for shops, restaurants, rock climbing walls, the greenbelt park extension (a fave of mine), splash park, playgrounds ect. However, these attractions do not have the draw that a world class skatepark has. Think of the skatepark as the keystone that would hold the River Park together. A skatepark will bring people in again and again. It will drive up attendance numbers. That increased traffic would help make the park more attractive for corporate sponsors to invest in larger and more expensive attractions to continue build on the success of Mud Island and the City of Memphis.
Would the skaters, in-liners and BMXers of Memphis survive without the skatepark on Mud Island? Of course they would. Would Mud Island survive without the skatepark? I'm not so sure.
I'm sorry Gurely, but what evidence is there that building a skate park on Mud Island will help retain or attract businesses or young talent?
@urbanut: Comparing NYC to Memphis is just silly - NYC has so many options to attract inspired, creative young talent, that it doesn't need so much in the way of skate parks, etc. Memphis, however, is loosing a lot of great people because we lack 'Things To Do'. A skate park isn't a magic bean; but as part of a complex that offers families, 20-30's, and tourists a place to play, hang out, and spend money, it's a great low-cost answer.
Restaurants? Really? WE DON"T HAVE FOOT TRAFFIC DOWNTOWN. We need feet on the pavement - get enough people down here, and the restaurants will come back. Downtown needs destinations - bring the Carousel, build the skate park, add a splash park and greenspaces, give folks a reason to come and play. Make downtown the heart of the city again, and let Shelby Farms be the country retreat.
What's up with all the haters? South tip of Mud Island has been empty for 95 years! For $1 million bucks, Mud Island could buzz with activity 365 days of year & be an intl. attraction for both locals & visitors. No other amenity would bring people down there & accomplish that for such a small amount of money (4% of the cost of the floating dock thing being built now).
Gurley is right. Mud Island needs life. A skatepark would resuscitate it 24/7/365 for such a miniscule investment in the community. This idea is the kind of small nicety of life that does attract people to a city. Create 10 or 12 (or 20) more such amenities & Memphis doesn't seem so third world any more and actually starts attracting citizens & visitors rather than repelling them.
Urbanaut, I think New York has plenty of amenities to attract people; what New York doesn't have is the opportunity to attract skaters from all over the world the chance to "skate the Mississippi River." This is a great, affordable opportunity for Memphis to grab. Because of its poor leadership of the last 15 years, Memphis needs to be pro-active in its quest to retain & attract people as opposed to literally & figuratively asking them to hit the road.
Personal experience. Every major skatepark that I have gone to has been packed with people. Not only locals, but a large amount of the skaters were from out of town like myself. They had come just because of the skatepark. People come from all over the nation just to skate a really good park. Many were there on repeat visits. I have even been to skateparks and met people that have come in from other countries like England, Brazil and Germany. That speaks to the draw of world class skateparks.
Jack, I gave you the evidence. Quality of life, plain and simple. Right now, we as a city, do not seem to offer a lot of family friendly, active attractions to those who are considering making Memphis their home or host. We hit them over the head with our Music, food and nightlife (as well we should, we have that part down). We tout our central location, easy access and low cost of living but other cities offer more. They offer a higher quality of life showcased by Bike trails, Greenways and ,yes, Skateparks. Look at cities like Colorado Springs, CO. or Portland, OR. that have consistently high quality of life rankings and you will see that they are rich with active outdoor options for everyone. They also have some of the highest number of skateparks over any other city in America.
Like I said, a skatepark alone won't do the work all by itself, but it is an important and very visible signpost that we are working to improve the lives of our citizens and our visitors. That part of the skateparks impact is ver valuable and can't be overlooked.
I'm not downing the skate park itself, just questioning its location. At some point our solution for Mud Island and the Riverfront seems to be that if we throw enough random "stuff" down there its bound to attract someone. If we built the Ferris wheel, the skate park, moved the Zippin Pippin and carousel, renovated the museum with the river walk and keep the monorail we might be able to advertise Mud Island as the "Great Attic of Memphis" and could even come up with a cool slogan like "Well, we like it, we just couldn't find a good place for it".
The location of Mud Island is perfect for a skatepark. We are trying to put the "Park" back into "River Park". By mixing in various active outdoor activities like the greenbelt park extension, boating and fishing on the river, splash park, playgrounds, maybe a rock climbing wall and then anchoring that with the draw of world class skatepark, you then create an active park experience for the whole family rather than a passive, go-and-look-at-it kind of thing going on now. Active experiences encourage repeated visits to the island and build up attendance numbers. Give the Zippin Pippin to Graceland and save the rest of the "gimmicky" stuff for later if there is an interest.
"Alternative two, which would mean more public and private investment, also includes a pedestrian bridge near the Beale Street Landing to the tip of Mud Island."
Why did we even bother to build the monorail?
lithy: Haven’t you ever seen the Simpsons episode with the Monorail: “It’ll put us on the map like North Haverbrook, Ogdenville, and Brockway”. One of my favorite episodes.
Cities that host the largest skate parks:
40,000 sqft
Louisville- In 2006 ranked best city for relocating small families (primacy research. Skate park is in the downtown area near the river.
Denver: Best city in 2009- (Pew research Center) Skate park is in the Downtown, in the core of a a massive redevelopment and next to the Platte River biking and running trail.
Colorado Springs: Ranked fittest city in 2008. Ranked best city in 2007 ( Money magazine) Ranked best city in 2009 by Outside magazine due to their access to recreation. Skate park located in the city park near Downtown.
60,000 sqft
San Jose: Safest city for four consecutive years.
Claearly these cities did not earn these marks by simply building a big skate park but it's one of the key amenties that when added up with 10-20 more makes a serious impact on the quality of life and ultimately on the capacity to attract professionals coming from recreational rich areas of the country. We are at a serious deficit in both departments.
As stated before, start with the skate park, then build on that success by expanding the greenline into the Riverpark, build a playground, a landbridge and then maybe a rcok-wall or some other recreational item. Let's get Memphis in shape and save some money on medical bills.
Just got back from the second meeting. My overall impression? This was a step backwards. They've got three versions of a color-coded zoning map, and that's all they wanted. The citizens' work is done. No specific plan, no theme, no unifying vision. Move on, somebody else will make the decisions from here on out.
They will take this to the RDC board. Then to the City administration. Then to the City Council. Then the RDC has the permission it needs to do its thing and keep busy and keep renewing its contract for another 20 years. Over time, the RDC will take pieces of this zoning map and implement something on each tract. Benny said it will be implemented in "pieces" but he could have said, just as accurately, "piecemeal".
This is so like the way a developer works. Just give me the site plan and tell me what the zoning restrictions are. I'll do the rest. Trust me.
Instead of getting to the answer of "What do you want Mud Island to be?" this process got to the answer of "What will you let me build, and where?"
The skateboard people were crushed. They felt like all their efforts went in the trash and they'll have to start over from the beginning...and (as my friend says) there may be a skateboard park for their children. Whether you personally want a skateboard park or something else, the point is the same. We are at zero with nothing gained but an abstract zoning map -- no three of them -- and little else.
I guess $400K doesn't buy too much these days.
well said, mike, i couldn't make it tonight but i did tuesday and i saw the same thing, except that the skaters seemed optimistic. i do look forward to better access and connecting trails.
I don't mean to put words in the skaters' mouths but my gut sense was that they were disappointed that the process ends without an answer.
I have explained the real purpose of the Mud Island Land Use Plan at this link:
http://www.memphiscobblestones.com/2009/10…
(Fade in)
RDC: We want public input at this meeting.
PUBLIC: Most of us want a skatepark.
RDC: Okay, we'll go with restaurants.
(Fade out)
Welcome to the wonderful world of governing by 'notice and comment'...
There is a reason why the word 'heed' isn't in there.
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