Tuesday, August 10, 2010
City Council Flight Plan
Posted by Mary Cashiola on Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM
With Pinnacle board members meeting tonight and the next two days, mayor A C Wharton presented millions in incentives to the City Council's executive committee today to persuade the airline to stay in Memphis.
"There is nobody on this body who does not believe that we're not committed to keeping Pinnacle here in Memphis," said City Council chair Harold Collins. "You go to that meeting today at 5:15 and you assure them they have our support, whatever they need. ... We will work with them. That's our goal."
News recently came out that Mississippi was wooing Pinnacle, and members of the Center City Commission and the city administration began working to both keep the company in Memphis and lure them to downtown's One Commerce Square.
Though supportive, council members had some qualms. With $15 million of the $18 million in incentives coming from federal stimulus funds, councilman Jim Strickland asked for a complete list of where stimulus funds have been spent. The other $3 million would come from a city economic development fund.
Wharton said that though this came up at the last minute, he plans to look at what the city's competitors are doing and bring a proposal to the council during the next budget cycle.
"I do think we should put money in the bank, so we're not scrounging around when these opportunities arise," said Barbara Swearengen Ware.
Comments (80)
Showing 1-50 of 80
I gotta say, all of these incentives and whatnot that are being offered to keep business in town just make zero sense to me. What happens the next time they deside to bow out? These are corporations, they don't give a damn about where they are located, its all about the dollars. The money that is overlooked and handed out through the PILOT program and 'incentives' like this is just staggering. Its no wonder the city has budget woes when tens of millions of dollars are given aways each year as incentives to come/stay here. Replace the word 'incentives' with 'bribes,' and I think we get a little closer to the truth. If the city government wants to put Pinnacle or any business in One Commerce, why doesn't it save the money reshuffling and put its own self in there?
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Shane,
It is definitely frustrating. But make no mistake about it. Someone nearby is going to give those corporations the money/incentives. And those jobs are going to depart.
When we are competing with Fayette/Desoto/West Memphis and all the incentives are close to the same. Companies don't like getting expensive requests. They don't like being asked to hire felons, and they don't like dealing with people who don't understand that the DEA/FAA/DoD will frown on the employment of felons. All of these things role through lawyers. And lawyers cost money. Dealing with Memphis/Shelby 3 times the cost of surrounding areas.
If someone had given me some incentives, I might have stayed in Memphis. So might everybody else. Instead, we moved to where the schools are, and now Memphis is reduced to bribing corporations not to move to where their employees already live.
Eh hem. Give people an incentive to stay and the corporations will stay, too. Give them an incentive to move away and they will move away. Even if they convince Pinnacle to move to One Commerce Square, Pinnacle employees are still gonna live in Arlington, Collierville, Olive Branch and S'haven.
In other words, if you build it, they will come. If you shit in it, you will have to bribe them to stay.
No one ever brags about living in DeSoto Cty. I haven't seen a single 38671 tshirt, bumper sticker, nothing. It's kind of sad. Having to show disdain for Memphis to justify a choice of neighborhood. Does DeSoto have anything other than "it's not Memphis"? Tsk. Tsk.
I do wonder why DeSoto is working so hard to bribe companies to come to their shit free wonderland.
Oh, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff: every major city, even the ones that are bustling, thriving and generally thought of as attractive, has an occasional problem attracting, or keeping, corporate HQ's. Just take a look at all the brokerage firms that moved their operations centers out of Manhattan to New Jersey (ugh). But, there are also corporate HQ's that have realized the suburbs aren't all they're cracked up to be, and have moved back into cities.
And, every major city, and many minor ones, has to, as you put it, bribe companies to either come or stay. Corporations have gotten used to that, and now they expect it.
As for where folks decide to live, sure, folks who don't know any better will live in the places you've mentioned, even the ones who work downtown, until they realize the unattractive trade-offs they've had to make (longer commutes, lack of cultural and entertainment venues, etc.). Which may be why places like Midtown have been experiencing a new influx of suburban refugees.
Besides, isn't "living in Mississippi" an oxymoron?
People don't have to brag or wear t-shirts in a vain attempt to convince themselves they're not wading in a turd pool if they're not actually wading in a turd pool.
Memphis has more problems than most in retaining and attracting companies and people. HOwever, if Desoto County poobahs believe that they can thrive long term while Memphis doesn't, they're wrong. I live in Germantown, but we're all in this metro Memphis boat together, and we should attempt to work together. For Desoto Count, a suggestion might be to focus on bringing more jobs/companies in from other metro areas rather than poaching Memphis companies. That way, it's a net gain for the region rather than merely a lateral movement of jobs around that only lines the pockets of company owners but doesn't really help the metro area as a whole. I don't blame the owners, really, who can blame them for taking more money. BTW, in comparison to many suburban areas of major metro cities in the country, Desoto County comes up woefully short. Goodman Road is an atrocity and frankly, Horn Lake is already a complete slum and parts of Southaven are even worse.
Let's see. Longer commutes and lack of cultural attractions do indeed suck. I'd much rather live in Memphis for these reasons. Memphis is my home town, born and raised. When I moved, I moved less than a mile across the border.
However, I put cultural attractions and my longer commute up against the fact that no matter where I choose to live in Desoto County, my kids will go to a good school, k-12. My ZIP Code and my street address don't determine whether my children will attend a good school or an urban hellhole. If Desoto county redraws the school districts and we get reassigned, my kids might not like it but I don't have to worry. Nor do I have to get them enrolled in an optional school. Every school in Desoto County is pretty darn good. That's quite a concept. You won't find a single optional school in Desoto County because Desoto County doesn't need optional schools. A good education isn't "Optional." Not for my chilluns.
There really was no choice for me. My social life finishes a distant second to my kids' edumacation.
I don't think our poobahs think that, Packrat. They're just padding the old resume and trying to get reelected. I would also prefer that communities in the metro area not try to poach each other's companies. Bad form, what.
As for Horn Lake and the S'haven, I don't associate with those people.
Jeff, respectfully, I think you're mistaken when you say DeSoto County schools are better than Shelby County Schools.
http://www.trulia.com/school-district/MS-D…
http://www.trulia.com/school-district/TN-S…
Respectfully dsiagree, Jeff. I think the Pollyannaish mindset that suburban areas will be just fine while Memphis crumbles into chaos is prevalent, not only in Desoto County, but in suburban Shelby County as well.
It's irritating that when Shelby County gives tax breaks, it's "corporate welfare." When DeSoto County does it, with a lot less public scrutiny due to a weak media down there, it's being "pro business."
Jeff, you should ask your elected officials down there to show how much tax money they give away to lure these companies. They'll tell you it's none of your business. I think Memphis gets bad publicity for being much more transparent, which should be considered a good thing.
Bruce, just at a glance, this isn't really a fair comparison. First of all, these are Shelby County schools, not Memphis City Schools. Second, roughly 7/10s of the Shelby schools in this survey are private or Catholic schools, while the Desoto survey only has five. I can't find the scores for Memphis City Schools on this site.
Given the heavy skew towards private and Catholic schools, I'd fully expect the Shelby County test scores to be much higher. But I can't afford to send my kids to private school. That also wasn't an Option. In any case, TN and MS use different tests, so a comparison of test scores isn't really fair.
All I can go on is my own experience. I have two kids, 4th and 1st grades. My 4th grader attended a Shelby County school in K and 1. My comparison, therefore, is their Kindergarten year.
The younger child was doing far more advanced reading and math in Desoto County kindergarten than my older child did in Shelby County kindergarten. The oldest was only just beginning to read in the last quarter. The youngest began reading in the first quarter. The oldest did no math. The youngest was doing simple addition and subtraction by the end of the year.
But this isn't really the point. My main point is that in Shelby County and Memphis, where you live determines whether or not your kid will go to a good school or a bad school, and can anyone deny that this alone makes a tremendous contribution to the cycle of poverty and urban decay? When I moved to Desoto County, I didn't have to consider the school district - at all. Just think about that. No matter where you move in Desoto County, from the poorest to the richest neighborhood, your kid is going to end up in a decent school. Maybe not as good a school as the best Memphis has to offer, but adaquate for our needs.
You're probably right, Drew. And Packrat, I don't think anyone in the burbs thinks the collapse won't follow them. As Memphis goes, so go we all. Just a little later, that's all.
But Jeff: when all is said and done, you live in MISSISSIPPI! I understand the concept of sacrifice for your kids' sake, but you can take that too far. I can't imagine anything, not even good schools (which, given its rank in per pupil spending--dead last--and the fact that Tennessee's schools outrank Mississippi's in standardized--NAEP--tests, is hard to believe), being worth that.
Do you want me to list all the reasons a sentient person wouldn't live in Mississippi? I would, but you'd accuse me of launching one of my excessively long diatribes. Suffice it to say that living in Mississippi for the schools is like being a masochist because it feels so good when the pain stops.
Marty, you commit the comparative navel gazing fallacy of comparing Desoto County to all of Mississippi, so I'll have to forgive you for that. I'll also have to forgive you for the geographical bim bapp boom fallacy of ascribing too much importance to a line on a map. I live so close to Tennessee, even I could manage to drag myself to the border without overly worrying my cardiologist. On a cool day. Before eating.
But anyway.
We happen to like it, and the kids are happy in their school. That's all that matters.
So, I guess that means Desoto County's schools get none of their money from Mississippi, aren't overseen by the MS Department of Education, its teachers aren't certified by the state of MS, its curriculum isn't dictated by the state, its pupil testing isn't administered by the state and, in all other respects, it operates autonomously from the state it happens to find itself inside of, as defined by the lines on a map, eh?
I know Mississippi has a fine tradition of secession, but I didn't know that was still going on, all the way down to the local level.
But, hey, if you're happy living in Mississippi (really?), that's all that counts, right?. Say hello to governor Foghorn Leghorn for me, though, will 'ya (I'm assuming you voted for him), and tell him I don't hold his love affair with the Council of Conservative Citizens or with the "Stars 'n Bars" against him. I mean, what do those SEC folks know, anyway? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100810/ap_on_…
Marty, at some point, you ought to lay off the ad hominem dreck about living in Mississippi. Criticizing people merely b/c of where they live doesn't take much intellect.
Oh, Packy, Marty's just yapping at me. It's kinda cute. Pat him on the head and tell him how vicious he is.
BTW, Marts, I'd never vote for a guy named Haley, unless he was an astronomer. Missippie's education ranking would probably be a good deal higher (as would Memphis') if not for the hole of poverty in which many of the kids start, as you well know. Desoto County is one of the more affluent areas, and just as in Memphis and Shelby County, the public schools in those areas are usually of better quality.
Seriously, your state line prejudices are almost Confederate in their intensity. You'd fit right in down here. You might want to consider a move. Hernando seems your kind of place. You could wear your pajamas to work and become an eclectic fixture of the town square scene.
Pack: tell that to the Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner families, or to the Evers or Till families. You think MS has changed all that much in the interim? Take a look at its flag, or take a look at the segregated dorms and fraternity houses, or the still-low percentage of black students and faculty, at "Ole Miss" (so named for the plantation owner's wife), or at so many other remaining vestiges of that state's proud history.
Sorry, but where folks choose to live says something about them, every bit as much as with whom they associate, where they send their kids to school and what organizations they belong to (and yes, even what they post on web site comment forums).
Speaking of which, I make no claim to intellect, or to perspicacity, unjustifiable as doing so would be, right?
Marty, you live in the city that killed Martin Luther King Jr. What does that say about you? No one needs to lecture me about the history, tragic, sordid, and otherwise, of the state of MIssissippi. I'll bet you a bottle of vino I know more about it than you do. Don't be so fucking parochial and narrow-minded, after all, Medger Evers was a Mississipian too.
One more thing: any state that produced Willie MOrris, Mose Allison, Robert Johnson, MOrgan Freeman, Ida Wells, Fannie Hamer, Larry Brown, Jimmie Rogers, Barry Hannah, BB KIng, McKinley MOrganfield, Hodding Carter, William Winter, Tanya Tucker, Marty Stuart, etc., etc., has something to say in its favor. Get the fuck over yourself.
Pack, and don't forget all these other racists who were dumb enough to live in Mississippi for all or part of their lives: William Faulkner, Barry Hannah, Eudora Welty, B.B. King, Jim Dickinson, Hodding Carter, Willie Morris, Walker Percy, Tennessee Williams, Richard Ford, Jimmy Buffett, Shelby Foote, Walter Anderson, Mose Allison, and about 10 zillion blues musicians. The fools!
Such provincial and stereotypical thinking is only slightly more intelligent than the argument that recycling crappy unused CDs is a putdown of peoples' children. Good grief.
Yeah, you guys are right. We (but especially black folks) really ought to be able to "get over" Mississippi's history, shouldn't we (and they)? That's just a part of its past, after all. Let's let bygones be bygones, right? Look at how far it's come.
Hey, Steve: these guys are right. There's no need to apologize for slavery; after all, it's just a part of history, too. Look at how far we've come. Black folks have gotten over it, haven't they? Stop being so damn provincial!
The MLK comparison is lame, even for you, Pack, but thanks for playing.
Jeff: I'm not surprised about those bites. Could be all them 'skeeters, ticks and chiggers you've got down there where you live. Or it could be those rug rats. Aren't they known to be (and as) ankle biters? Just tell 'em a revisionist story about the history of where they live (what they don't know won't hurt 'em), and tuck 'em in.
Marty: Let's review: First, you create a fake commentor to have mutually supportive conversations with (Suspended Account) while letting people think it might be Tommy V. Then you trash everyone who lives in Mississippi as racists while denying that the King assassination in Memphis is a relevant parallel. Finally, you top it off by calling Jeff's kids names and defaming his parenting skills. Might be time to take break, bucco. I think you've created enough ill will around here for a week. Even for you.
Saying I defamed anyone (or anything) is ridiculous. Why do you journos think you can practice law?
And, I didn't create a fake commentor (which you well know, since you have the ability to find out), but accusing me of doing so might be defamatory, especially since you don't have truth as a defense. But, I'm in a magnanimous mood, so you're forgiven.
P.S. I hope you will unmask "Suspended Account" (and his/her predecessor). Inquiring minds want to know.
Marty, You definitely are Suspended Account, and prior to that, the other name that was banned. I wouldn't post that if it weren't true, and you know it.
Bruce: why go through this charade. You and I both know that I'm NOT "Suspended Account," and I just don't understand your insistence that I am. I wouldn't be afraid to admit it, if I were. What's the worst that would happen? Besides, I'm quite sure you couldn't prove your false accusation if you had to.
But look, if what you're looking to do is to banish me, just go ahead and do it. You don't need to fabricate a story to do that. You're the boss; you control everything that happens on this site. Go ahead; push the "banish" button. Just stop making false accusations. That's beneath you (or so I thought).
"With $15 million of the $18 million in incentives coming from federal stimulus funds" In case I haven't mentioned it, I'm horrified by this. Bribes, payoffs, and bailouts... it's exhausting. Let. Them. Go. Invest the money in something that won't ask for another $15-million to stay when the first $15 runs out.
This isn't FedEx, it's a company with a history of labor problems and profits that continue to lag. My guess is that will nearly cover executive bonuses (I exaggerate---but I think the spirit is appropriate).
Marty, I'm not going to stay on this site all weekend saying, "Were not." "Were too." Say whatever makes you feel good. We both know the truth.
CD. I think putting up a good fight to keep them is essential. We have to show a willingness to be competitive in recruiting. Pinnacle is no FedEx for sure. It is the Delta triple A team. And we need to keep them. Even if it means filling the seats for $3. Those people still buy popcorn. And yes, it sucks.
Drop by the office on Monday, Marty. I'll be happy to show you. And if you want to keep this up, I'll happily publish the evidence for everyone to see on Monday. Those postings came from your computer. Meanwhile, I think it's time for us to see other people.
Christ, how I long for the days of Sailor Jerry and Ta-Da! Marty's a crap substitute.
Maybe Zip. But a protection money is protection money. It's never paid in full and it sure as hell isn't a stimulus.
They've been good corporate partners, I suppose and generous to the arts. It comes back in dribs & drabs.
Marty......nowhere did I say, breathe, whisper, think or insinuate that black people should "get over" racism, slavery, or Mississippi history. If you say I did, you're a damned liar. If you knew me, or anything about me, or anyone who knows me, you would know that kind of thing is exactly the opposite of me and the way I live my life and what I believe. And (AGAIN), I am well aware of Mississippi's very painful and sordid history and especially its racial history, and I'll bet you anything you want I'm at least twice as knowlegdeable about it as you even think you are. In some ways you can't fathom or know. I am not an apologist for Mississippi, nor a promoter of it, fool. But tarnishing anyone who lives in Mississippi with your moralistic broad brush is complete and utter bullshit, and deep down, you KNOW it. You can call it lame, but my analogy still stands, you CHOOSE to live in the city where through the actions of the city fathers and mayor Henry Loeb, MLK came here and was murdered here. So by your logic, YOU sir share guilt for that. One thing you've shown to me, and I have attorneys who are close friends, is that like the stereotypical a-hole lawyer, you are congenitally incapable of admitting when you're in the wrong. I haven't figured out if its something they teach you cretins in law school, or you gravitate towards the legal profession b/c you're all born that way.
BTW, I'm betting Jeff teaches his children about the history of the state they live in, at the appropriate time, warts and all. Just like I'm teaching mine.
CD. There is no windfall. If you're lucky you keep the employees around. It helps the local tax base and supports the restaurants and stuff. At least MS wins in the revenue dept. win the poor unsuspecting employees get that first check and say "wtf!".
Pack: I've admitted, many times, on this forum when I've been wrong. Believe it or not, I've even apologized.
I really don't want to argue with you any more about this, except to say that Henry Loeb was no Ross Barnett, and James Earl Ray, an itinerant, was no Byron De La Beckwith, a Mississippian. De La Beckwith, you may recall, was actually HUGGED by Barnett at one of his trials, in full view of the all-white jury.
I lived in Pittsburgh in 1968 when King was assassinated, where riots broke out as a result, and didn't move to Memphis until 1981, which, I don't think, makes me share any guilt for that event. Now, if there had been scores of murders, lynchings, church burnings and the like in Tennessee before I moved here, like there were in Mississippi, my choice to live here would be an entirely different thing.
As for what I said about Jeff's children, way too much has been made of that, mostly in the effort to try to discredit me. Jeff made a comment, in response to one of mine, that he had been bitten on the ankle. All I was doing was offering a comeback, by suggesting that his ankle biting might have been inflicted by actual "ankle biters," sometimes also referred to as "rug rats." Those are not derogatory terms for children, but rather are just slang terms for children, usually used in good humor to refer to them, and anyone who's had them (and I've had two) understands why.
Wow, I wish you guys would lighten up.
If "Suspended Account" was in fact Marty then Marty needs to go, or at least take a few weeks to sit in the corner and think about what he's done. That is dishonest and unfair to Tommy, whether he is banned or not. I certainly don't put up with that kind of shit on my blog.
If Tommy is merely posting from Marty's computer, a possibility I wouldn't rule out, then they have both trolled us all so fucking hard. If so, congratulations on that, and a hearty "fuck you!" to you both.
I am utterly amazed -- and sometimes delighted, sometimes appalled -- at the industry and diligence and persistence and plain old O.C. syndrome that go into making up these mega-threads. As I am at the Twitter explosion. In a way, both phenomena are sequels in the saga of Chat Room, a once-flourishing piece of thematics that had supposedly run its course. But here we are -- blogs and websites themselves having leveled out -- in a kind of full-cycle experience.
I am now seeing it all as a key to the riddle of Willie Herenton. Don't ask me why. I just know it has something to do with the alternating flashes of delusion and lucidity and torpor and tearing-off-one's-clothes in the privacy of one's closet and finally, helplessly, out in the street itself that go with any late-stage dementia.
For surely we are come at last into the Last Days, brethren.
The Last Days, at least until the Next Days. That's what I'm looking forward to, myself: the time when all of this gets filed away in the same nostalgic bin in our dusty brains as the first honest-to-God music video. We can certainly agree that this is all progress of some sort, but I'm not so sure it can yet be called "good."
Bruce: I tried my best not to be too long-winded (as I admit, is my wont). Looks like I failed, miserably. Sorry. NO ONE ELSE NEEDS TO BOTHER READING THIS. Move along folks; there's nothing to see here. Carry on with your "Flight Plan" discussion, if you like. I've gotta say a few things, though.
I'll accept your invitation, simply because I'm more than curious what you could possibly have that shows something as being true that I know, as surely as I have ever known anything, to be false. I'm not sure I'll know what I'm looking at, though, even when you show it to me.
Let me tell you, in case you've never had the experience: being falsely accused sucks. Not that this rises anywhere even remotely to that level, but just ask anyone who's been exonerated by the Innocence Project about that.
The only thing I can think of is that, if you have something that shows my computer as the source of the disputed posting, it could be that, through some kind of computer hocus pocus, someone figured out how to make something that didn't actually come from my computer seem like it did. What I don't know about computers is far more than what I do, but we do know that impersonation can take place in the cyber world, as you and I have had graphic evidence of in just the last few days with the episode involving one of our very good mutual friends having had his e-mail address hijacked for nefarious purposes, or as the allegations in the Kernell boy's case demonstrated.
A little internet research revealed a number of sites that explain how to steal IP addresses (the computer's identity) and then use those stolen addresses to make it seem like messages are coming from them, including how to use the stolen address to post on message boards. Depending on what you have to show me, I strongly suspect that's what may have happened here. It's not like there isn't someone out there, whose vitriol both you and I have been subjected to, who doesn't dislike me (or you) enough to exert the effort necessary to do something like that, if they knew how. Gee, I wonder who that could be?
By the way, if you look at what "Suspended Account" (and his/her predecessor) posted, you would have to know it wasn't me. People's writing styles are a lot like fingerprints; it's extremely unlikely, though I admit not impossible, that someone could completely reinvent the way they express themselves in order to impersonate someone they weren't. I'm not that clever. My style inevitably shows through. Overuse of parentheses, alone, would betray me. Even if I tried to impersonate someone's style, it would come out as such an obvious caricature, it would be instantly recognizable as a fake, which would defeat the purpose.
I assure you, once again, by everything I hold sacred (Roberto Clemente, candy corn and the movie "The Graduate," among other things), I am not "Suspended Account" (or his/her predecessor).
Besides, as I've told you, I had no reason to create another identity (much less lie about it) just so I could say something I wouldn't have been reluctant to say, if that's what I thought, under my real identity (picture and all). If I didn't like your son's band, and for some reason (like maybe that I wanted to get even with you for something you had done to me--gee, I wonder who'd want to do that), felt the irresistible urge to do so, I'd tell you that, for attribution. It's not like I haven't pissed you off before, for attribution.
The hacker (my word choice) appears to have known a lot more about the current generation's music, in general, and MGMT in particular, than I ever have, or ever will. Gee, I wonder who that could be? I've never even heard MGMT, but please, don't add that to the list of things you already hold against me. Just look at the circumstances, Bruce: the hacker tried to "get" two of us for the price of one. If you continue to believe that I am "Suspended Account," then the real "Suspended Account," as we say about terrorists, will have accomplished their purpose.
Also, while I'm at it, I don't understand how my opinion that the King assassination, a single (and admittedly singular) event, isn't comparable to Mississippi's history of multiple lynchings, murders, church burnings, etc. can be used in the effort to discredit me. It's not like that opinion is somehow malicious per se.
And, as I've told Pack, I didn't call anybody's kids names, or defame anyone's parenting skills, in spite of your mischaracterization, again apparently in order to discredit me. I used two slang words, commonly used in a good-natured way to refer to kids, as a comeback to (and alternative explanation for) a comment that implied I had "bitten" the commenter on the ankles with one of my comments directed his way. There is nothing mean-spirited or derogatory about either of those words. I wouldn't attack anyone's kids; I have two of my own (though long since past the "ankle biter" or "rug rat" stage), and wouldn't take kindly to anyone's attacking them.
As for my prejudice about Mississippi (which I readily admit to), it may be a vestige of my days as a civil rights lawyer in Pennsylvania in the early 70's. But, it's also a result of the vestiges of Mississippi's shameful past I continue to see in many places, ways and people in that state. For what it's worth, I'm married to a Mississippi girl (and an "Ole Miss" co-ed to boot--one who witnessed the whole James Meredith debacle, first hand), so how much could I really dislike it?
I'd like to see if we can get past this misunderstanding, including figuring out the source of your "evidence." Maybe you have a computer expert who could help us figure that out. I'll get in touch with you by (hopefully) private e-mail to set something up for Monday.
Again, sorry for the ridiculous length. It really is too bad, as someone suggested accounted for the length of my comments, I'm not getting paid by the word (much less at all).
Sweet Wounded Jesus!!!
Can't we just have a couple of beers, go to Smitty's, and then dance the night away at Raiford's?
Jeff, I too am guilty of making fun of everything about Mississippi. Everything except tailgating in the Grove that is. But I do understand your reasons as I am much in the boat and may have to leave my beloved Midtown for better, safer, and not least importantly cheaper pastures (and schools). Private school tuition is taking bigger bites out of the budget every year.
Now if what Marty is saying about living somewhere indicts one to the prevailing thoughts or ties one to the history of a place, then no one in Mississippi (or Memphis, or Alabama, or anywhere for that matter) would ever stand up for what is right. There were many people of all sorts from all of these places that made a stand during the civil rights fight of the 60's, just as there are many people of all stripes making a stand today about gay rights, environmental issues, poverty, and even still today, racism. By following your logic Marty, we would all segregate ourselves into communities of sameness and never change anything.
Let's end this useless (and tiresome) exchange of diatribes and return to the usual snarky and witty comments that we are all much better at.
I know it seems absurd and out of the way to do this, but to return for just a moment to the actual subject of the article: That would have been Nikki Tinker's one selling point: Elect me, and I'll keep Pinnacle in town.
All right now, peoples, back to group therapy. Ping pong at 3 except for those scheduled in the shock room.
Merc: I told you not to read it. But, as long as we're returning to snark, what's up with the biohazard symbol? I suggest this one would be more appropriate: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm…; it's the one for irritating, or noxious. snark/off
But seriously, let's posit the scenario where, back in the early 60's, you were a caucasian, and you moved to, or continued to live in, a city you knew was operated under the Jim Crow regimen. Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't have been, at least tacitly, approving the existence of those laws, and the harm they caused? Is the difference between that and, today, moving to, or continuing to live in, a town, or state, that still has institutionalized vestiges of that history, one of degree, or of kind? I know the two scenarios aren't the same, but don't tell me they're not similar.
Of course, to a degree, every place in the south still has vestiges of that history, but some have it because it still hasn't been long enough to completely eradicate it, and some have it because it was so thoroughly embedded in their culture, they refuse to let it die. I'm sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings, but that's the way I, and I believe many others (though maybe not "down here") see it.
You're utterly full of sh!t. I'm taking a siesta from this crap and this site. btw, you ought to read Gene Dattel's new book, Cotton and Race in the Making of America; maybe it'll shed a little light on your lame-assed attempts to blame one state, and everyone who lives in it, for all the racism of the South and America. I suppose everyone in Alabama gets a free pass from you b/c they live one state over, don't they? And Faubus' sins don't reflect on people who live in Arkansas, do they? You chose to live in the South, ergo, you're a piece of shit, Marty. That's your argument taken to its logical conclusion.
Marty is a retard....who said that??.....sry...hackers....stealing ip address....can't stop them devious bastards..............wasn't me Marsha.........must google defense..........public humiliation looms.......conspiracy.....belabor.....relitigate....add....make it stop....voices in head trying to control me.....need outlet....pills not working...............ip override almost complete...world domination starts with Martias keyboard....must silence barbour....west Memphis police......oil.oil. grammmy nominated kids. jealous.
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