Thursday, May 28, 2009
Bredesen to Veto Guns-in-Bars Bill; Override Expected
Posted by Jackson Baker on Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:47 PM
A follow-up press conference on the matter was scheduled by Bredesen for Thursday afternoon in the Capitol.
In the letter to the two speakers, Bredesen said it "defies common sense" for someone to be allowed to carry a weapon "into a crowded bar at midnight on a Saturday night."
The bill's chief House sponsor, state representative Curry Todd, a Collierville Republican, said he would move for a House override next week.
Tennessee law requires only a simple majority in both legislative chambers, Senate and House, to override a gubernatorial veto. The bill originally passed both chambers by a substantial majority.
In the letter, Bredesen, who professed general support for the constitutional right to bear arms, employed a phrase that had been used frequently by law-enforcement opponents of the bill: "Guns and alcohol don't mix." The governor cited that as a "basic tenet" of gun safety classes taught by the National Rifle Association, proponents of the measure.
This was the text of Governor Bredesen's letter to Speakers Williams and Ramsey:
I am vetoing House Bill 962. I am a strong supporter of the right to keep and bear arms, as guaranteed by both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 26 of the Tennessee Constitution. I believe these provisions guarantee an individual right to bear arms, and I am unequivocally committed to preserving this American right.Americans have also understood for more than two centuries that there are sensible rules that we apply to the exercise of these rights. I have been a life-long supporter of the responsible and appropriate handling and use of firearms. As a young man growing up in a small town, I attended a gun safety class in my high school sponsored by the National Rifle Association. A basic tenet taught in that class was this: "Guns and alcohol don't mix." This seemingly common sense proposition is as true today as it was almost 50 years ago.
In recognition of this basic principle of firearm safety, Tennessee state law has long prohibited the possession of firearms in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol. House Bill 962 would remove this protection in a manner that I, along with many law enforcement officers, believe to be reckless and lacking basic safeguards to ensure public safety. The notion that this bill would permit one to carry a concealed weapon into a crowded bar at midnight on a Saturday night defies common sense, and I cannot sign such a measure into law. As you consider this veto, I respectfully ask the legislature to rethink this issue.
Rep. Todd would issue his own extended statement:
I intend to proceed with this bill, and override the veto. I’m disappointed that the Governor would use his veto power to abridge the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Tennesseans.I’m also disappointed that the Governor would perpetuate the myth that this is a ‘guns in bars’ bill. This bill allows law-abiding Tennesseans with a handgun carry permit to carry in a restaurant in order to protect and defend themselves in the unfortunate event that they would need to do so.
Ninety-five percent of the citizens who have contacted me regarding this bill want to see it pass. I intend to move forward to ensure that the wishes of the citizens of this state are carried out.
I want to thank everyone who has shown support for this bill, and look forward to the continued support of my colleagues.
Comments (18)
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There was no bravery involved. His veto will be easily bypassed. I suspect he's doing this to provide cover for Democratic legislators who want to walk back from their "yes" vote to placate their base at home. Now that their real vote is over (the measure passed) no doubt some will suddenly profess changed minds and mea culpas when it doesn't matter. Watch to see who changes their vote during the override vote.
I am a long time supporter of Gov. Bredesen, and I don't mean for one issue to erase or discredit all of the great things he has done for the state of Tennessee. Overall, I wish he wasn't constrained by a term limit.
I do, however, find it necessary to point out a major flaw in his logic and approach to the recent handgun carry law veto (House Bill 962). While I can appreciate Gov. Bredesen's respect for and counsel sought of law enforcement leaders, I don't believe that representing their wishes should outweigh the wishes of the public majority. To do so is to demonstrate to the public that he believes that law enforcement leaders know what's best for citizens - NOT the citizens themselves.
I can appreciate (and respect) the position of law enforcement leaders as they have to face frightening situations on a regular basis. They don't know if suspects are armed or not, and the fear of facing a greater potential for armed civilians in alcohol serving establishments is a rational basis for anxiety. This is not, however, a basis for restricting law abiding citizens from the ability to defend themselves and others from violence.
This bill is repeatedly referred to as a ‘guns in bars’ law, when is NOT at all. It simply allows a person taking their family out to eat at Applebee's to carry their handgun. Gov. Bredesen's careless statement:
"The notion that this bill would permit one to carry a concealed weapon into a crowded bar at midnight on a Saturday night defies common sense, and I cannot sign such a measure into law,"
demonstrates that he either refuses to present the law as it is truly written, or has failed to take the time to read and understand the law before taking action. The only "crowded bar at midnight on a Saturday night" is generally going to be a 21 years and older bar - which are explicitly excluded from the law. There is no crowded bar in Applebee’s at midnight on a Saturday night...
I live in Memphis and have had to endure numerous stories of violent attacks on citizens in family restaurants in the middle of the day. Violent criminals don't care about carry laws and will not obey them. This places them at an advantage and law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage (unless you intend to post armed law enforcement at the establishments full-time during business hours).
Gov. Bredesen exhibits support for a dangerous philosophy by placing decisions in the hands of law enforcement leaders' counsel rather than the popular majority as this ceases to be a government for the people and by the people, but rather an authoritative dictatorship comprised of an oligarchy.
This is not the United States that I know and love. This is a land where the wishes of the majority establish the rule. There has been a very clear majority in support of this law, yet it has been vetoed based on the wishes of a small, elite group of law enforcement leaders. If this same philosophy were extended to the rest of our nation and included our military leaders, we would live under the rule of a very empowered and capable tyranny.
I urge Gov. Bredesen to respect, honor, and support the wishes of the majority as he has vowed to.
-Bryan of Memphis, NRA member, and proud supporter of Governor Bredesen
so wait, in TN you only need a simple majority to override the gov's veto? the same simple majority that passed the bill in the first place?
well, wtf is the point of a veto then?
You make two very good points Bryan, that criminal won't obey carry laws and that the wishes of the majority should establish the rules.
However, I question whether it's the majority speaking or just the loudest person at the party. As for criminals not obeying carry laws, that assumes that the solution to that is for more people to be carrying guns. I would rather have one criminal with a gun than one criminal with a gun and ten hillbillies with guns, no idea how to use them, and itchy trigger fingers. I'm not saying that all gun-carrying folks are dangerous, only that many have no training and carry guns only to feed their testosterone-fueled ego.
As a strong supporter of gun control laws, I patiently await the day when criminals can't get guns on any street corner and when citizens don't feel the need to carry a gun to go out to eat.
Until then, I'll try to be nice to people and not get my head blown off. There is no doubt in my mind that this bill will lead to more violence, more officers killed in the line of duty, and a more dangerous state to live in.
The entire point of this law is meaningless anyway. The present laws include an exemption for a person that has a permit and uses their gun in self defense (para-phrasing ya'll) even if it was somewhere they weren't supposed to have it. So basically this law is NOT necessary. Why can't our legislature work on solving state budget issues and improving the business climate in Tennessee instead of working on useless pet legislation in an attempt to pander to special interest groups.
"It simply allows a person taking their family out to eat at Applebee's to carry their handgun." -Bryan
I don't know what's more crazy- the fact that you prefer to dine with a pistol at your side, or that you eat at Applebee's.
no kidding clyde, anyone who eats at Applebees has impaired taste buds. Or at Olive Garden for that matter.
I found the Flyer's article this week, "Loaded Question," to bring out a great point: the owner's of these restaurants in which patrons may now bring firearms are never considered in the law-making processes. It seems that many of them are strongly opposed to the bill and I support Bredesen in trying to listen to his constituents whom will be most affected by such a ludicrously unnecessary allowance. Are you really worried about gang-bangers at Applebees? Will you be safer having the gun in the restaurant vs leaving it out in the car, in the street, where all of this horrific violence is occurring? Seems like the latest waves of gun crime we've heard about lately have been white, affluent, and trigger-happy patrons that just so happen to carry firearms. Who are we trying to protect, and from what exactly??
hold the phone, is bryanw right in that this bill does not include 21 and over bars? If so, what is all noise about? And it does seem that the arguments against the bill are bs. Dang, I was looking forward to getting tanked and shooting the plates off the saucer wall.
No Zip, he's not. Amendments that would have exempted 21 & over bars were stripped from the bill before it passed.
Zip:I don't know that "owners don't want it, cops don't want it, there's no clear majority favoring it, and no minority that can be described as truly oppressed" can be easily written off as bs. That may be irrelevant in the be all, but worthy of consideration.
Finally, Bredesen gets something right, and of course, it won't count. To all those congratulating him on this veto, I would remind you that the proof is in the pudding. What stands as law is what counts here.
If he's serious about this, he could, I don't know, lobby the legislature.
Every state that borders Tennessee (except North Carolina) allow guns in establishments that serve alcohol. How many bar shootouts have you heard of in Birmingham, Atlanta, Louisville, Little Rock, St. Louis, etc? Fact is you havn't. Georgia went through this same argument last year (except Gov. Perdue signed the law). People were screaming that the concealed carry would start shootouts on mass transit, at bars, etc. The only gun issue in Georgia was a permit holder stopping a rape, and even in that no shots were fired. No shootouts, none. Concealed Carry Permit holders have a better criminal track record than the police do.
In Tennessee, me not being able to drink when carrying into a restaurant is only going to do two things for me. First it will save me money,a nd second my friends will now always have a designated driver.
The argument that restaurant owners werent considered in this bill is garbage too. They can always post their restaurant off limits. Takes only a few seconds, and its posted off limits to law abiding citizens. Of course, I will excersize my rights of free choice and only patronize restaurants that do not post
VETO OVERRIDE COMING UP!
Sorry Mr. Pilot dude, but my best friend's brother was fatally shot in Charlotte, NC at a Mexican restaurant that had a bar (much like Chili's). There were little kids and women in the place.My friend's brother stopped after work for a brewsky and was caught in the crossfire between two guys who were drunk and arguing over a football game being shown on the TV in the bar. Don't try to convince me that bar shootouts don't happen. My buddy has never gotten over this.
Still waiting for anyone to explain how Larry Godwin, Bill Gibbons, et al. are the voice of 'law enforcement'.
In the same way that Willie Herenton and Janis Fulilove know what's best for everyone in Memphis?
There still ought to be a better way to cut down on the number of drunk or ignorant yahoos shooting at each other in bars, than to sling misinformation.
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