oak, you are amusing.
I didn't say "Liberals in Portland tore up their town", YOU did!. So now do you mean only a few?. I can then say soldiers are baby killers?, muslims are terrorists?, or conservatives are liars without need for qualification? More of Oaks Monday Morning QB meaninglessness.
"But you didn't say he was wrong. You said he was 'lying'." AND "That's not lying. That's just being wrong" ........Yes I did.
Here's the 3rd definition of the word LIE at dictionary.com: "an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood".
There is nothing to double down on as it is an accurate use of the English language. It is a bit of hyperbole on your part...again. Don't forget ..."let's be civil".
I have not claimed all conservatives did anything, that all Trump supporters or even all of Trump's staff did anything. I did comment that Trump's press secretary lied. It is quite simply a fact. Even the WSJ acknowledges it being baseless "What data there is doesnt support Mr. Spicers statement".
On to the double down, I acknowledged to using a broad brush. Just like the media in question apologized for the bust issue. People of character acknowledge when they are wrong, Spicer has not and neither have you.
Given your fondness for bible verses.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
I will just presume you didn't know the definition of the word lie before, now you do.
I do suggest you try practicing what you preach.
It's nice to see them exercise their democratic rights. Now, besides taking a pleasant walk, what exactly did they accomplish? Are they at least going to do something specific? Like maybe figuring out how to take up the slack if Planned Parenthood gets defunded? Getting the photo ops gets the population moving, but to make an impact, you need to lay out where they go from here.
@datGuy - Let's talk about hyperbole. Heres some of yours:
"..if ALL of the protestors had sprayed 'F$%^ cops', MOST EVERY WALL in downtown..."
I never said all, or even most. You did. You are the one being being hyperbolic here. That means you aren't one of the reasonable people, even if you appear to want to characterize yourself as such. It in fact makes you one of the ones who are increasing the hostility. Having followed your arguments for a while, I don't think that's who you really are, or where you really want to be.
You also say:
"..Trumps Press Secretary lying about inauguration crowds. The man has no morals..."
Clearly, review of the subsequent information regarding the inauguration of Trump, and the last two inaugurations of Obama, show that his categorical claim that Trump's was the largest is wrong. But you didn't say he was wrong. You said he was 'lying'. Then you doubled down, and said that he 'has no morals'.
Now the problem with these statements, is that they are hyperbolic, and draw conclusions for which you simply do not have enough information.
In the first case, it is just as likely that the press secretary honestly believed that he was correct when he made that statement, because that was the information given to him, as it is that he knowingly told a lie. Given the fact that mainstream media have already told numerous lies, such as the Churchill bust thing and many others maligning Trump, any spokesman for Trump would likely be looking for further mischaracterizations by them which are intended to diminish him and his Presidency. He may have spoken thinking that to be the case, and then later found out that he was wrong.
That's not lying. That's just being wrong. Which you and I and the rest of God's people do pretty much every day of our lives. But you don't even consider that as a possibility. You.
The second part is more problematic though. You concluded, because it fits your agenda, that this man has no morals. And there is simply no way for you to know any of that. You don't know him well enough to come to that conclusion. But because you want to be hyperbolic, you are willing to believe the worst of the man.
And that's wrong. It's immoral. Your actions.
So before you stand too tall on your high horse, maybe you should cut it back a notch. I've found you to be a fair-minded individual mostly. But in this case, I don't think you are evidencing the reasonable character that I would expect from you.
Cl, agreed. Liberals were apparently more restrained yesterday all over the country. Apparently it is not a liberal thing, but a criminal one.
dat and Oak,
Regarding the Portland trash, from what I've read so far there was little trashing in SF and Oakland, especially Oakland where in the recent past the "anarchists" have disrupted most demonstrations.
So I'm thinking the wannabe revolutionaries who do this form such a small group that they can't be in more than one place at a time, and/or the cointelpro elements didn't think these demonstrations would be significant.
PS clearly anyone associated with the Trump inner core is immoral, much the same as with Hillary's squad.
Oak, in your extensive commentary, you never answered the question....is lying wrong? or is it okay using a twisted compass?
FYI - if all of the protestors had spray painted "F$%^ cops", most every wall in downtown Portland would say that. Clearly that is not the case, a hyperbolic fallacy perhaps? Let's be civil.
@datGuy - Oh, you meant the Press Secretary has no morals. Ok. I guess you know him or something, and can make that kind of a statement, right?
Listen, there are so many 'true believers' who believe in their cause, that justify whatever lies they want to tell, by reference to the lies their opponents tell, that the whole thing is a stew of seething mendacity. The press threw one out about Trump and the Churchill bust, just to jazz up the liberal base too. So that guy who told that lie has no morals too?
No, it's not that simple.
What you have, are two implacable political groups, who will stop at very little, in order to further their narrative of what it means to be An American at this point in our history. It's not that either side has no morals. It's that their moral compass has been twisted, to justify whatever inaccurate or biased interpretation of events that is necessary, in order to amplify and reinforce their a priori prejudices.
Neither side is looking at what is actually happening. They are intoxicated by this hostility, and pushing into further hyperbolic orbits.
What is needed, is for the rational citizens left among us, to call people on the hyperbolic language, and insist upon civility.
Protest is good. Getting the kids out to work on actual, real, substantive issues is good. Spray painting walls with 'Fuck Cops' in Portland, is not.
It's way beyond pointless. It's dangerous.
I used to work with a student population where I simply classified them as violent, crazy or stupid. Occasionally one would come along we would simply call, the Trifecta. I hear the ghosts of slot machines in the ruins of Trump Casinos ringing and pinging like mad.
Oak, I didn't say Trump has no morals, that goes without saying - "grab them by the pu$$y". The subject was Trump's press secretary.
"inasmuch as no two people have the same idea of what adequate 'morals' might be, that's a pretty vague accusation" .... really? It was a broad brush, but I think most would agree lying is wrong. Don't you concur?
Clearly his idea of this 'morals' thing is considerably different than yours. But inasmuch as no two people have the same idea of what adequate 'morals' might be, that's a pretty vague accusation. What exactly did the Press Secretary say, that made this a lie by Trump? Their mouths are attached to two different people.
Trumps Press Secretary lying about inauguration crowds. The man has no morals
Wait. Liberals in Portland tore up their town because they don't like the guy in DC?
Now that's gonna help advance their cause. You bet.
There is a noticeable difference if you drink your hard liquor beverages neat. Otherwise not so much.
This podcast felt more like wide-eyed gawking than reporting. Ultimately we have two white guys with thick Southern accents who are "shocked, shocked I tell you" at the level of anger on display in our country's most progressive urban centers by the election of a fascist President. It mirrors the same shock! from those on the left when they read about southern legislators legalizing guns on campuses or religious books being made "official" state books. IMHO, I find Trumps daily lies more shocking than left-wing protesters in SF, LA or Portland.
I feel truly sorry for the Secret Service having to defend this charlatan from a fate similar to (and presumably more competently) than JFK's. Who knows but that the "Second Amendment people" Trump transparently suggested might take action against Hillary, or that the intelligence "community" he's vilified and has so much experience dispatching political figures, might not take action against him, not that that would create a huge wave of schadenfreude or anything.
Trump deserves a lot of credit, if for nothing else (and really, there is nothing else), for waking the sleeping giant of organized protest in this country.
While so many countries seem capable of mobilizing thousands of outraged citizens at the drop of a hat, within hours of their government doing something they object to, complete with professional-looking signs, banners, and the like, Americans have seemed willing to take whatever is dished out to them.
Not since the civil rights and anti-war movements has this country seen the likes of the anti-Trump protests, and it seems this one, unlike Occupy Wall Street, which was squashed by the concerted efforts of local and national government agents, will be around for a good long while. Right on, brothers and sisters!
Open Ododo onto the Oligarchs!
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By Richard Alley
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