These caucasians need to dial it back or they may send in some riot troops with Styrofoam swimming pool noodles.
Jay Walker, I have seen you cross the street and I know of your civil disobedience!
@BL - "..Not sure about that absolute..."
AP was right. People are never crap. What you were raised to believe is crap.
"People are never crap."
Not sure about that absolute. I was raised to believe people can be "whited sepulchers", "vessels of wrath", etc.
Regardless, people can definitely be crappy, and never so truly as when expressing moral superiority.
Jeff need only add a coat, tie and graying blonde wig to Walter--the facial expression is already perfect.
I am not surprised you did not bother to read it.
Actually, Thoughtful, I admire it about is much as when one of my children whined, "But you said... (insert painfully literal, asinine interpretation of what I said here)."
Thankfully, they grew up and by 12 years old stopped doing it. Some folks still think it's a smashing rhetorical foil.
Pop, I must have hit pretty close to the mark to warrant a 1,000 word riposte which, thanks to your historical obtuseness, I didn't bother to read, and so won't bother to counter. A troll is many things, but his purpose to is generate outrage and the expenditure of energy for no purpose - when his propositions are shredded, he merely pivots to something else, and if all else fails, falls back on his politeness and the incivility of others.
Chortling? Never, my good sir.
Why you suburban twit. Is that chortling I hear?
I sort of like the word crap, useful in describing arguments not supportable by evidence, and never to be used as a personal description. In other words, people are never crap, but their arguments may be. Feel free to return the favor, I will not be offended or feel disrespected.
Again, things which may seem obvious to you, and you take as the absolute truth, may not be so obvious to others. If you want to convince those people, present evidence of your positions. If your truths are valid, it should not be hard.
Thus my respect for Oak. he is an academic, I think. He lives in that world and debates on that basis.
And thus my disappointment with others who do not.
@APop Referring to someone as a troll or calling their posts crap amount to the same sort of disrespect. Pretending not to know things, when you know exactly what they mean, is a form of studied obtuseness, which you employ here rhetorically so often, that your credibility suffers. That's Jeff's point, I think. For what it's worth, I feel that's actually a compliment to you, in that Jeff wouldn't say that, if he thought you weren't capable of higher level reasoning.
@Jeff, Jeff, Jeff.
I think your problem with my posts is simply that we have different world views. Perhaps we are different places in life. I happened to be a bit older than most, have been around the block a few times, have made a lot more mistakes than you, and don't suffer from the disability of thinking I have all the answers. Life has a way of dissuading a person of that vanity. I have learned the hard way that my world view may contain assumptions that are simply not supported when closely examined.
Thus I enjoy conversing with those who hold different opinions. It had been fruitful to me, because some of my assumptions have changed over my time here and than has been good for me.
I don't see how beneficial conversation can occur in any way unless those conversing are polite to each other. Accusations of being obtuse, which I take simply as your frustration that I do not agree with your closely held beliefs, which, since they are obvious to you should be obvious to me as well, don't bother me.
Neither does the name calling, which I take as the first sign of a lost position.
In this current thread, Thoughtful described the voting process as bad because it was tainted by "privilege" and "structural imbalance". I challenge that assumption. After no examples were produced, Oak chimed in and offered his interpretation that what Thoughtful really meant was that those on the lower rung of the socioeconomic ladder were disadvantaged in the voting process, a position supported by all the evidence.
So now I have learned that "structural imbalance" means "socioeconomic disadvantage". Good for me.
As to the rest of your post, I cannot accept that the Voting ID law in Tennessee has been so described by the courts, so i challenge you to provide some proof of that. While you are at it, would you also show us that early voting is under attack in Tennessee? Early voting is wildly popular and i have not heard of any Legislative attempt to abolish it. It does seem logical that since the Republicans holds supermajorities in both houses, they could already have done it if that was their intention.
As for your last remark, I am disappointed that your would confuse incompetence with fraud, which is an accusation, not to be taken lightly, voter fraud being a felony and a damned serious one. I also do not agree that serial incompetence is an indication of fraud or even of evil intent, as delicious as it is to think otherwise. As an example, I point to the performance and judgment of the Shelby County Democratic Party in the last several elections, a performance separate from the alleged malfeasance of Mr. Carson.
I am a bit disappointed that you would refer to me as a troll, as I was doubly disappointed that a responsible journalist like Bruce would also do that. Internet trolls, by definition, use inflammatory language to stir discord, post with the design of creating emotional responses, accuse without any justification, and unjustly describe the motivations behind other poster's positions.
I don't think I have done any of those things.
These lengthy answers to Pop's historical record of obtuse trolling, which he defends on the basis of his politeness, and Bruno's mystification about early voting, can best be summed up with two statements.
1. The system described has, in several recent court cases, been found to be deliberately designed to disenfranchise (court's word, not mine) poor and minority voters.
B. Early voting is being heavily targeted for reduction or elimination all over the country by partisan conservative election commissions. So yeah, enjoy your early voting - you may not have it much longer in Tennessee.
The Shelby County Election Commission's actions are by design, not by accident, because of low budgets, or crappy equipment. How many times can someone screw up before you start to doubt their sincerity? I guess it depends on whether the screw-ups work to your benefit or your detriment, right?
Thank you sir. Your illustration is quite to the point.
Randy, you're so radiant, dude (I need a little Poke Salad, chomp!)!!!!
Yes, Charlie, thank you for taking time to shine light on this subject.
My answer to the ID as verifying the person's identity is how much does your Driver's License look like you? I've seen enough IDs through these elections to know that over half of them look different to me, so that makes the rest of the information more important - like birthday and address. I can tell you horror stories about working a precinct with 4 generations of the same family and having to deal with John Smith Sr., John Smith Jr., John W. Smith, John Smith III, and then John Smith IV all in one screen of your tablet when John Smith shows up to vote and three of them have the same address.
How many teenagers try and get fake IDs that have bogus info on it so they can buy alcohol?
The ID voter laws are BS, they are there for the sole purpose to make it harder for people to vote by putting "barriers" in place.
I had one gentlemen I had to turn away and here is why. He moved to TN about 3 months earlier and had registered to vote - he handed me his little voter card the EC mailed him. He was in the tablet, he was at the proper precinct. He handed me his Texas Driver's License which he had not had time to replace was valid for 2 more years. Sorry. TN Law clear states it has to be a TN issued ID. However, if he had a US Passport, no issue. Or if he voted absentee, no ID needed. Because he didn't have the right ID, he got turned away. (He also could have voted provisional and then followed up with the EC afterwards, but he walked)
See how stupid that is. You can register by mail and never present ID and get in the EC Database, but you better have one of the approved IDs if you show up in person to actually vote.
As for the Shelby Commission vs. the EC, let's all remember this one -
I also think that the EC is held back by some of the structural issues that hold them back from getting top talent that could address this issue. The SC not properly funding the EC makes it hard to go get that talent. However, the Tennessee rule that makes it a hard rule that the local EC has to be a member of the party in control of the Legislature is stupid. That automatically cuts your talent pool in half for the top leadership position of the EC. This goes both ways. Right now, only Republicans can be considered to lead the ECs. So if there is a talented Democrat that could address these issues, there is no way to get them in place. Same could be said if the Democrats ever take over the Legislature again, then a talented Republican would not be able to run the local EC. Limited the talent pool does not help the ECs get those that could address these in place.
How in hell does the SCC, in all its hypocrisy, deprive the EC of the funds to run a modern election system and then turn around and give them shit when things don't run smoothly on election days?
I'm not sure I've ever read a more informed and educational post than Charlie's. And he's had more than a few.
I am perplexed that poll workers would use the picture ID as anything other than a verification of that person's identity, which I thought was the whole idea. As long as person is registered to vote in that precinct, what difference does the address on the ID, which may or may not be current, make?
I think the idea of linking the EC database with the Motor Vehicles database is highly desirable. Any insight into why that has not already been accomplished? Outside of the cost?
I must admit, given your description of the process, that we have not had more major blowups on election days.
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