Comment Archives: Stories: Last 7 Days
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
OK, playerfraud, if you’re serious about this.
In 2012, Memphis’s graduation rate was 70.3%, Shelby County’s was 90.5%, and the statewide average was 87.2%. Knox County was 87%, Hamilton County (Chattanooga) was 82%. http://bit.ly/182GNAI
The latest Great School rating for Memphis is a 2 (out of 10). Chattanooga is a 4, Knoxville is a 7. http://bit.ly/182KUwP
On the state report card for 2012, Memphis City Schools has a D in math, an F in reading, an F in social studies, and an F in science. The state average is A’s and B’s. Knox County is all A’s and B’s. Hamilton County is all A’s and B’s. http://bit.ly/182LNFJ
How about dropout rates? Knox County is 5%, Hamilton County is 10%, Shelby County is 5%, Memphis is 16%. http://bit.ly/16ilEoN
Shall I continue, or would you like a moment to rethink your position?
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
AP,
The above "Oldtimeplayer" is not the same as the oldtimeplayer (underlined) that you have swapped comments with in the past. Just some anonymous using otp's name. Probably one of the Flyer staff stirring the comment pot.
Re: “Future Planning”
@ CL,
I apologize if I left you out of my previous comment about just being silly when you haven't anything logical to add to a discussion.
There, that was easy to fix.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
Merc
And therin is the issue. It is not the absolute tax expense that is a factor. If a business wants to locate in this approximate area ( for any number of reasons, let say for proximity to a established distribution network) the relative tax burden is explored for every possible location. Among many other cost considerations.
How can I as a manger possibly pass up a lower cost alternative, say Olive Branch, if I can get the other benefits just as well at that location?
If Memphis were that great a tax deal, they wouldn't have to issue total tax abatements to induce industry to move here.
Yeah, I took Econ 101.
Making business decisions when there are many alternatives is a part of Managerial Economics, a bit more advanced than Econ 101.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
@ mad merc,
I've lived in many parts of this country too, and after reading your posts, I'm getting this sinking feeling that you may have watched too many Shirley Temple movies.
But I could be wrong about the movies...
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
I've been trumpeting de-annexation for years. It makes too much sense.
I doubt the city will do it, but it would be the right move.
I'm not going to pull the Detroit comparison, but the city's financial troubles are very real. The solution is to cut back to the main core of the city, revitalize the core, and then think about annexation if the city has something to offer the surrounding areas.
OTP is right about one thing, Detroit was too reliant on one industry, but Memphis's financial troubles and the need for a solution are very real.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
Memphis' most urban areas are still very suburban in planning and feel. When you compare population densities, it's pretty plain to see that Memphis needs to reduce its footprint, even without that Economics 101 degree that OTP was talking about.
And as far as taxes go, sure Memphis may have one of the lowest city taxes for the 20 largest cities, but that does take into account the combined tax rate for sure. Having lived in other places I can assure you that the total tax bill for someone living in the city of Memphis is definitely on the high side. Then when you add in the increased fees that the mayor and council have imposed in lieu of tax increases it's even worse, especially when you consider the return of the tax investment of the property owner...not very much. And this doesn't even begin to go into the nearly 10% sales tax rate!
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
Erin
Yes, it is.
But it does not have to be.
It will take some really bold action, but Memphis can certainly turn things around and prosper. Hence the discussion about improving the financial picture by de-annexing those low density spaces that are costing, and are about to cost, a fortune to maintain, protect, ect.
As Merc points out, such bold action runs counter to the political ambitions, and personal power, of its politicians. Unfortunately, they are the ones empowered make the decisions, and I don't have much hope.
Re: “Cohen Hits Passage of House Bill on Overtime”
For once Cohen is correct.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
Say what you may, it's still just an urban area on the decline.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
OTP
I trust you have seen the report furnished to the City Council describing the large land area occupied by the City of Memphis, and the subsequent low population density, as being a continuing financial problem. Since a great deal of this area was acquired by annexation, it is fair to ask if further annexation promotes the welfare of Memphis.
The report described the continual outlay of funds to support such a large infrastructure as one of the reasons for Memphis being short of funds. Whether or not the report is accurate, I have no idea. But no one on the City Council disputed it as far as I know.
A reasonable person could think that if the report is right, a potential solution is to de-annex some of that space. Certainly, annexing more area at this time is akin to seeing your bathtub overflowing and running for a mop rather than first shutting off the water.
I don't doubt that Detroit has passed the tipping point and Memphis has not. I did read the Time article referenced and the similarities between the politics, and executive actions, of the two cities are too close for comfort.
I am of the opinion that a healthy Memphis is good for the suburbs. The very last thing I want is for Memphis to fail. I have never thought that this struggle between the City and its suburbs is a zero sum game, so I hope Memphis can find its way through the financial mess it is in.
I am curious about those school rankings. When was that last ranking that put them MCS up there with Knoxvile and Chattanooga? Given all the bad press about MCS in the last few years, it would be suprising if it were recent. If you have a link, I would appreciate it.
BTW, on that tax rate thing. The economic example of the great state of Texas , and other low tax states, might lead to a different conclusion about what importance businesses place on taxes.
And it sure looks like we suburbanites are quite willing, through increased sales taxes and increased property taxes, to pay for what we want. Can't say the same about your fellow Memphians. Apparently, they want all that Pre-K, but just can't quite force themselves to pay that extra .25 percent of sales tax. Memphians also want that great MATA service, just can't work up the nerve to to pay a little extra gas tax for it.
Well, maybe you will get a second chance this year. I hear Flinn is going to try and get it back on the ballot.
Congrats for getting out of the hood, good move.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
ArlingtonPop
There is no comparison of Memphis to Detroit. Unlike what Staythirsty says, facts say differently.
Memphis, in square miles, is a very large city. It is 50% larger in area than Chicago, Il.
According to Forbes, Memphis has the 2nd lowest taxes paid by its residents in the nation.
The old Memphis City School District was ranked among the better large, urban school districts in the nation. It's last ranking by Great Schools put them right up there with Knoxville and Chattanooga.
Population loss, even when counting the annexations is nowhere near that of Detroit. Detroit was a one trick city economically, not so for Memphis.
Crime in the city of Memphis is high, however, it has constantly declined in the last 5 years. Homicides are misleading. In the city of Memphis, 75% of all homicides occurred between people who knew each other, often times when drug deals, etc are injvolved. Another percentaqe of the homiciodes are the result of fueds and/or fights(personal, not random) between two individuals. With an area that is 50% larger than Chicago, but, with less than half the police that Chicago has, I think that the MPD do a credible job.
What Staythirsty and others fail to realize is that some people, mostly suburban, are not used to paying 100% for the things that this area needs. Even with the lowest tax rate in the nation, those people are not willing to pay more taxes. Please do not give me that song about high taxes inhibiting growth. If one would pay attention to how and why and where businessess decide to locate, economics 101, they will find out that the tax rate is not even considered when a company is looking for a place to locate or relocate.
So, Pop, I ask that Staythirsty and all of the others please give references as to why Memphis is so bad and who they are comparing Memphis to, size, population, schools, etc.
Btw, I have taken advantage of the slow economy and bought another home. I am still in the city of Memphis, 2 streets from Germantown.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
@Mad
I think you are right. And isn't Memphis planning to annex even more low-density areas in the Southwind neighborhood soon?
Madness.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
Memphis must go big and bold .....Larry Cox for Mayor! I mean Wyath is unavailable so it's the next best thingy, right?
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
Excellent question Pop.
I'm not sure that we have any politicos that are willing to place the good of the city (and in essence the region) over their own personal power and mini-fiefdom. Although I believe attitudes may be changing as the council struggles with paying for city services spread out over such a large area.
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
@Mad
Yup.
So who on the City Council will lead the de-annexation effort?
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
Voter turnout is low across the country for local elections.
http://www.fairvote.org/voter-turnout
Shelby County voter turnout in March 2012 was lower than Davidson, Knox and Hamilton counties, but not by much.
http://www.tennessee.gov/sos/election/data/turnout/2012_03%20Turnout.pdf
Re: “Future Planning”
B_head
What part of Easter Bunny don't you understand?
Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
"...to about 700,000 in a city of 142 square miles. The population of Memphis ... 647,000 in more than 300 square miles."
Not to shortchange the other problems cited, but this one quote pretty much sums up the single largest problem with Memphis and its budget.
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Re: “The Comparison of Detroit and Memphis, Again”
@Drift
Right you are.
I am chagrined, as much as I have been impersonated, not to have noticed.