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      <title>Comments On: At the Hostess Plant
    
      by Susan Ellis</title>
      <link>http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant</link>
      <atom:link href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Rss.xml?oid=3298911&amp;id=comments" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />      <description>Comments On: At the Hostess Plant
    
      by Susan Ellis</description>
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      <pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 00:00:01 -0500</pubDate>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3304813]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Jeff]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA["We don't typically hear about sweatshop conditions in this country" That's true, we don't hear about them, but they still exist here. But for the most part, they have moved to other countries where they don't have unions or government protections - <a href="http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/345-justice/14728-us-brands-blamed-in-deadly-bangladeshi-blaze" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://readersupportednews.org/news-sectio&hellip;</a><br>
<br>
Without unions and legal protections, I'd say it would take about a generation, maybe less if the economy is bad enough, to turn America into Bangledesh.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=1164573">Jeff</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:56:04 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3304361]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[GroveReb84]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@Jeff,<br>
<br>
As I said, I completely understand how unions got their start, and I understand why they were needed.<br>
<br>
My question, just playing devil's advocate, is how much they are needed today. Maybe you are right, and maybe the government wouldn't protect its people from unsafe or ridiculous working conditions.<br>
<br>
It just seems that most strikes from unions these days are about pay and benefits.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3142555">GroveReb84</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:53:55 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3304334]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[Jeff]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Grove you are correct about the bargaining power of the skilled worked - he or she is able to extract greater concessions at the individual level, especially when dealing with a small company. However, take a large company that can go out and recruit a skilled worker, the individual has little or no power.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=1164573">Jeff</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:18:36 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3304308]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[luckyg71]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[were the work conditions that bad  that a union was needed? 15 hour work days for pennys and deaths on the floor every day?
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=2023188">luckyg71</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:17:16 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3301613]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[CL Mullins]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Holy crap I wish I could type. Look at all this lengthy commentary over Polysorbate 60 and the like.<br>
Clegg, I  acquired my disdain of MBAs from long time business owners confronting the little assholes when dealing with corporations.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=1164512">CL Mullins</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:35:02 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3301212]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[GWCarver]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[It sounds like you agree there is no real difference between extortion by organized crime and the illegal Chicago teachers' strike.<br>
<br>
You also appear to agree that unions only benefit themselves, so your use of the word "snide" concerning my remarks is misplaced.<br>
<br>
Also, the foundation of your argument is simply wrong. It is easy to replace teachers, and the competence of the teachers was irrelevant to the strike or its resolution.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=2613570">GWCarver</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:59:35 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3301195]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[GroveReb84]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Playing devil's advocate here OTP, but if the skill of the work force is specialized and hard to replace, wouldn't that make the case that they DIDN'T need a union?<br>
<br>
If my skill is in demand and hard to replace, shouldn't I have the bargaining power to get fair treatment? After all, if my skill is in demand, I can go find a similar job with a competitor that treats me better if my current company isn't doing so.<br>
<br>
To me, the whole need for unions would arise when the skill is NOT specialized, or the skill is easily replaceable.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3142555">GroveReb84</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:04:04 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3301140]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[oldtimeplayer]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[GWCarver,<br>
<br>
There is flaw in your position. Why is extortion illegal?
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3091078">oldtimeplayer</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:18:28 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3301076]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[GWCarver]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[OTP, I just did an extensive 2 minute evaluation of unions, and concluded they do not do a single positive thing for a business or its customers -- it is all negative. The only positive benefit a union provides is to itself.<br>
<br>
With regard to public service unions, perhaps you could explain the difference to me between the Chicago teachers' union recent strike and extortion in organized crime.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=2613570">GWCarver</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:53:00 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300993]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[The Cat]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I agree, GroveReb84,  that businesses of all sizes make up a dynamic mix that works for everyone;  however, I see many companies divesting themselves of subsidiaries in order to increase profit margins. That says to me that they grew more than they could handle.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          The Cat]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:40:19 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300966]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[oldtimeplayer]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Grove<br>
<br>
Again you are wrong. Other countries, especially Asian countries have a built in patriosm that makes them choose evryday products made in their own country over exports.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3091078">oldtimeplayer</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:09:12 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300957]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[GroveReb84]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[OTP, you don't seem to understand oil prices. Oil prices and their fluctuation is largely driven by the market, namely speculators.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3142555">GroveReb84</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:57:44 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
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    <author><![CDATA[GroveReb84]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Don't disagree Cat.<br>
<br>
Again though, I will reiterate, not all big business is bad. Not all executives are bad or dishonestly taking bonuses while the business is failing.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3142555">GroveReb84</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:20:33 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300938]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[oldtimeplayer]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Grove<br>
<br>
World droughts, the instability of oil prices and such do have a profound effect on the prices of products. But that is a false premise which benefit the oill producers and the refineries.<br>
<br>
First of all, I am an american first, foremost and last.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3091078">oldtimeplayer</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:08:19 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300912]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[The Cat]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[When successful companies pay bonuses based on percentages of increased profits to CEO's and other executives, everybody wins. When unsuccessful companies pay bonuses even though profits are flat or falling, evrybody loses.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          The Cat]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:24:54 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300890]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[barf]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[otp- your analysis of rising costs is overly simplistic. Here is a nice excerpt from an article in The Guardian written by John Vidal back in 2011.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=2423531">barf</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:02:30 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300887]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[GroveReb84]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[There are a lot more moving parts OTP than you describe.<br>
<br>
The investors that you seem so down on are the ones who provide the capital which companies use to either form or grow. Businesses don't grow by reinvesting revenues alone, and they certainly don't get off the ground without someone investing capital up front.<br>
<br>
If you eliminated the stock market, banks would be the only option for companies to use to seek capital.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3142555">GroveReb84</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:47:40 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300879]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[oldtimeplayer]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[It is with grief that I read the total ignorance of some of these posters when it comes to unions. Unions were not and are not now set up to give amnesty to lazy and irresponsible workers.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3091078">oldtimeplayer</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:26:15 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.memphisflyer.com/HungryMemphis/archives/2012/11/16/at-the-hostess-plant/#3300856]]></link>

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    <author><![CDATA[GroveReb84]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[One problem CL.<br>
<br>
If society makes all the choices for what's best for it, that usually means freebies, and we all know there are no free lunches.<br>
<br>
Universal health care is a great idea. I love it actually, but who pays for it?
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3142555">GroveReb84</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:37:17 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
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    <author><![CDATA[clegg]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[CL Mullins,<br>
<br>
As an addendum to what you mentioned: for all the scorn and derision "liberal arts" majors receive, there is no other degree that has less value than a business degree. They have no place in academia, whatsoever.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3229607">clegg</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:17:15 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
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    <author><![CDATA[CHG]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Men are not all equal according to union philosophy. Some have more talents and drive and are more responsible.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=1167001">CHG</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 06:19:10 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <author><![CDATA[clarion]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I just heard on the news a judge has ordered them into mediation. I wonder if the union is going to let thousands (18000 I think) lose their jobs or take whatever is offered.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3287481">clarion</a>]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:25:39 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
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    <author><![CDATA[clarion]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Grove<br>
I wonder if they have a chance to let Canada make them? I have tried other brands of "twinkies" and they were just not as good.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=3287481">clarion</a>]]>
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    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:27:19 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
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    <author><![CDATA[CL Mullins]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[GroveReb84,<br>
I'm afraid you have it backwards. It a perfect utopian society, a free market could deliver us all the libertarian pies and porn we would desire, and we could all afford them.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=1164512">CL Mullins</a>]]>
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    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:53:29 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: At the Hostess Plant]]></title>

    
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    <author><![CDATA[barf]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[otp- there are so many factors you are not including in your analysis of job growth, where those jobs are being created, the types of employment they represent and their accompanying salaries that it boggles the mind.
        
        <br />
        Posted by 
        
          <a href="http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Profile?oid=2423531">barf</a>]]>
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    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:52:41 -0600</pubDate>
    <source url="http://www.memphisflyer.com">Memphis Flyer</source>
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