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Re: “Arkansas Goes to Pot

I see that Arkansas will accept medical marijuana cards from other states. So I am envisioning road blocks at the various Mississippi River Bridges

1 like, 1 dislike
Posted by CL Mullins on 05/27/2017 at 2:51 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

As I understand it, Montana is a "stand your ground" state. maybe we need more Bat Masterson and less Bob Woodward in the New Journalism.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Mia S Kite on 05/27/2017 at 6:22 AM

Re: “Catching the Big One

When the Flyer gets body-slammed, I hit back. Not a good day to be trashing our journalism.

5 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by BruceVanWyngarden on 05/26/2017 at 9:48 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

Wow, do I feel late to the prom.

5 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by CL Mullins on 05/26/2017 at 9:22 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

Bruce,
I hope you haven't 86'd ArlingtonPop Wrong though he may be, so very often, he still advances the discussion.
APop,
Holy crap, holding off on opinions until ALL the facts are in? This ain't that kind of forum or a sworn jury. Sitting on your thumbs and whistling the time away until some official verdict is achieved defeats the purpose of this discussion regardless of your opinion of anyone's professionalism.
Besides, has any President ever comes as close as this one to fulfilling Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors. I think he is checking them off a list as he goes.

6 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by CL Mullins on 05/26/2017 at 9:21 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

Oak, the "two" I was referring to were Arlington Pop and Thoughtful, who were disparaging journalists while commenting on a site where the material they are commenting on is created by journalists. Pop went on to claim that the Flyer wasn't journalism. Fuck him. He's gone. As for you, I find you relentlessly tiresome and pedantic. And also unnecessary. Grow another website on which to bloviate.

4 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by BruceVanWyngarden on 05/26/2017 at 9:08 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

@Bruce - Here we two are? There are more than two, manifestly. The idea that one perspective is going to carry the day is ridiculous. Clearly, there are many perspectives of value, and to which we should devote some attention and consideration. The fact that you think there are only two people who disagree with your perspectives, is laughable. You should be thanking us for giving you alternatives to your premature conclusions, if you were engaged in actual journalism. Simply, there are many many other interpretations of events than what you want us to swallow as 'truth' here. Honestly, are you that fragile? Grow a pair.

10 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by OakTree on 05/26/2017 at 7:42 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

If you were only half as clever as you thought you were

"Who defended violence?" You did when you questioned the journalistic claim for protection under the First Amendment, regardless of the opinion of the journalist or whether they were involved with advocacy, and its requirement for a healthy democracy. Instead of being intelligent enough or willing to simply not read an article by someone you believe to be biased, you question their claim to the First. If that is the case, then our democracy has been doomed from the start. The founding fathers lived in a day and age where even less reputable journalists (essentially anyone with paper and access to a printing press) could relate the news to entire regions through any lens they saw fit. Many of these early sources of news were so biased in their "reporting" they make today's Breitbart and Slate look like the very definition of neutrality.

Of course, maybe I am at fault for assuming you to be anything less than incredibly nave regarding the effects the removal of the protections provided in the First would have. Such results are clearly seen in every nation that has allowed such protection to erode: violence against members of the media, extortion, corruption of government officials, and all out suppression of news deemed unacceptable by the powers that be. It is a regular pattern that is repeating itself in various locations across the globe even as we type. Then again, maybe you are not nave and just do not prefer the freedoms our nation enjoys seeing as these freedoms have allowed so many of your fellow Americans to hold opinions that are contrary to your own.

As for "seems" and "something", I am not sure to what you are referring, but it is a clear indication you need to try and re-read the above posts if not give yourself some time away from electronic devises. Right now it "seems" that you may be seeing things and that "something" may be a touch of dementia you need to suppress.

3 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by barf on 05/26/2017 at 3:35 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

Hey, Pop. Go pound sand on another site. See ya.

4 likes, 10 dislikes
Posted by BruceVanWyngarden on 05/26/2017 at 3:09 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

@barf

Who defended violence?

Violence is not defendable.

And there is that "seems" word again.

And what is that "something" that told you that?

9 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by ArlingtonPop on 05/26/2017 at 2:59 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

@Bruce

Journalists?

I will only accept that description of the Flyer if you can accept that Fox News consists of journalists also.

Not journalists, just advocates.

Unless you really want to defend this article as anything more than earnestly wishing that the President of the United States is a traitor?

9 likes, 6 dislikes
Posted by ArlingtonPop on 05/26/2017 at 2:51 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

AP-
All accounts and witnesses describe the same scene (this description provided by the FoxNews reporter):
"The reporter (Ben Jacobs) asked if he had a response to the newly released Congressional Budget Office report on the American Health Care Act. Gianforte told him he would get to him later. Jacobs persisted with his question. Gianforte told him to talk to his press guy, Shane Scanlon. At that point, Gianforte grabbed Jacobs by the neck with both hands and slammed him into the ground behind him. Faith, Keith and I watched in disbelief as Gianforte then began punching the reporter. As Gianforte moved on top of Jacobs, he began yelling something to the effect of, 'I'm sick and tired of this!'".

So, on the eve of a special election, a journalist has the gall to push a political nominee for a position statement regarding newly released government information pertaining to one of the most important pieces of legislation currently floating in the halls of DC and he is an advocate of a particular political philosophy? A Republican representative says "It's not appropriate behavior. Unless the reporter deserved it" and yet journalists should not claim their right to questio... even grill... politicians under protection of the First Amendment (what you derisively refer to as "special protection". Too bad all those gun nuts have "special protection" under the same Constitution). You think journalists were a pure and unbiased lot when the First Amendment was adopted in 1791? Hardly, but at least our founders understood the important role they play in a democracy which is why they did not include any "but for" clauses regarding viewpoints, opinion or journalistic products in stating that important right.

But maybe you are right, the death of democracy does not start with physical attacks against journalists. It truly begins to show itself when people such as yourself try to justify violence that violates rights protected by the Constitution.

5 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by barf on 05/26/2017 at 2:35 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

And yet, here you two are, day after day, commenting at a website where all the content is generated by journalists. Careful what you wish for.

6 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by BruceVanWyngarden on 05/26/2017 at 2:28 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

Getting an asshole out of your personal space when they jump up your nose is appropriate. The death of democracy occurs when civil discourse devolves to the point that people would defend such affronts as acceptable. They are not.

8 likes, 6 dislikes
Posted by Thoughtful on 05/26/2017 at 2:09 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

@barf

Or perhaps when journalists cross the line and become advocates of a particular political philosophy, and them claim special protection under the Constitution, is how the death of democracy begins to show itself?

9 likes, 6 dislikes
Posted by ArlingtonPop on 05/26/2017 at 1:46 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

...and VanWyngarden,
In somewhat related news, you must be concerned regarding the apparent validation of a representative elect by the voters in a state when said rep. "bodyslammed" a member of the press and then went on to win the election while the rest of the GOP having developed collective amnesia overnight. Rep. Duncan Hunter(R) who did apparently still remember the incident said of the assault on the reporter, Its not appropriate behavior. Unless the reporter deserved it. One of the fringe righties with a radio show and an open invitation to the White House said that Although there is an audio recording of the incident, video is needed for the story to be reliable. This despite the fact that other journalists, even those with FoxNews, corroborated the story. Meanwhile, active interviews outside of polling stations in Montana captured quotes such as these from some that states most respected and highly regarded citizens: "You're lucky someone doesn't pop one of you and "That audio made me cheer."

History is very clear in noting that this is how the death of a democracy begins to show itself.

5 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by barf on 05/26/2017 at 12:50 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

@Oak

I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Intel community to be able to make any sort of intelligent contribution to the discussion.

I do think that talk of impeachment is being tossed around pretty loosely. The Constitution allows impeachment on the basis of Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors. The member requesting impeachment must be able to demonstrate the behavior that merits those charges.

Nevertheless. impeachment is a political act and a political process, separate from any criminal judicial process. Which is to say it is up to politicians to determine what behavior constitutes a valid basis of impeachment under the Constitution.

So, maybe.

8 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by ArlingtonPop on 05/26/2017 at 12:45 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

If or when evidence is finally presented regarding Trump's collusion with the Russians, the second question will be whether anyone does anything about it. While I would love to believe that most of my fellow countrymen (and women) are ultimately ruled by logic and pine for justice, I have a sneaking suspicion that all the POTUS will need to do in response is call whatever facts are provided "lies" (no matter how it was gathered, how rock solid and regardless of the number of witnesses) and Trump's troops will continue to gleefully march to his tune. It fits the conspiracy narrative he has been pushing from the start and that middle America loves to gorge themselves upon.
The GOP will be able to easily play to whatever tune is called for by ensuring the bar that defines solid evidence will morph to always be slightly outside the scope of whatever evidence is provided ("Yes, the rest of DC saw/heard it. However, I was on the can, so the validity of the facts are questionable").

In all seriousness, the man could shoot somebody on Fifth Ave at noon in front of thousands of witnesses with camera phones documenting the whole thing and I believe he would get away with it after the Prez reminds the rest of the country:
A) They did not actually see it themselves ("Who you going to trust, me or a bunch of looser New Yorkers?")
and
B) That the video is being peddled by the liberal media ("The Moon landing was filmed in a studio in Anaheim").

4 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by barf on 05/26/2017 at 12:22 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

Well, there are two elements of the INTEL community here.

The first, is the Deep State, that has been interested for a couple decades now, in acquiring ex-Soviet states for its new collection of NATO clients. To pursue this, there have been destabilizing elements sown in many places along the Russian sphere of influence, such as Georgia, Moldova, and of course the most obvious, Ukraine.

This element supersedes individual presidential administrations, dwells mostly within the bowels of the alphabet agencies, and has gotten us into a lot of troubles that most of the American electorate doesn't understand, or even want us involved in, in the first place. It is a relic of the Cold War, and operates in much the same way as a chess match does, in that it is concerned with maximizing territory and operational supremacy, in as large an area of the globe as is possible. This is the part that fundamentally is in opposition to Trump.

The second element though, is what has allowed Trump to continue as far as he has. This element recognizes the long term impossibility of the US continuing to spend, spend, spend, into the future, and allow our 'allies' to parasitize the US economy, while comfortably sitting in our Pax Americana shadow. This element of the INTEL community is interested in Trump's demonstrated capacity to do the unpredictable thing, and act in what are conventionally seen as illogical ways, in order to reach his objectives. They are giving him some rope, to see if his unpredictability can get something different from the Chinese and Russians than the more logical and deferential Obama could achieve.

If he can do that, they will let him continue. If not, impeachment is near.

I am not really concerned about the Russia probe, because I am convinced that it is just a handy stick, which they are using to get the donkey to move when it is obstinate.

We will see of course. But I agree with you AP, that there seems to be a great deal of fishiness in these accusations from NeverTrump forces. Their willingness to throw anything against the wall, just hoping something sticks, smacks of desperation to me. Having been in governmental positions where oversight was one of my jobs, that isn't how you do that. So I am less than convinced by what I've seen so far.

Still wait and see on my end.

8 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by OakTree on 05/26/2017 at 12:15 PM

Re: “Catching the Big One

@Bruce

BTW, thanks for the link.

But you do see the problem, I hope.

It all those modifiers, "seemingly", "anecdotally", "if true" that turn the article into just another hit piece where the headline turns out to have no justification.

So I will wait to judge until there is something solid.

8 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by ArlingtonPop on 05/26/2017 at 11:46 AM

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