Not to hijack this thread, but everybody reallly should read this by Hooba about the implications of the Randolph trade:
http://3sob.com/archives/40-july-2009/547-…
The strength of his argument is highlighted by the weakness of Chip's rebuttal. As others have said, it is time for hardcore fans to disengage from the Grizzlies.

Wow!!! I love long diatribes like this when the team hasn't even set foot on the court yet. How will the same fans feel if this team is able to put up 40-45 wins??? I'm not saying that is going to happen, but this will be the first year since the Grizz have been in Memphis that they have been able to put a legitimate NBA starter (talent-wise) at each of the five positions.

I'm still now sure how I feel about this deal. As a half-season ticket holder, I'll be watching either way. I would say that at least he gives us a chance to be really good next year. If we went in with Hakim and Arthur next year, we would have improved simply through our young guys being a year more experienced, but not by much. Z-Bo can score points and get some boards, and I think defense is overrated in the NBA unless you're competing for a championship, which we're not. If this gets us close to the playoffs, or even in them, I'm for it.

I think it may be worth it to clarify this discussion as (I think) Chris tried to do in the previous post. I actually don't know how Randolph's presence will affect the success of the team; I don't think he will be good for the team especially considering his past history but this is a point of legitimate debate.
What should be clear from Hooba's post is that the primary (if not, sole) intention of the organization in getting Randolph was to maximize profits and minimize financial risk (you need to keep in mind that the team has to meet a minimum salary requirement which Randolph's hire accomplishes). While there is a beneficial role for this type of behavior for small market teams, I believe they crossed the line in getting such a historically bad actor in the NBA when other, clearly better options were available. When you couple this with how obviously Randolph' acquisition contradicts the so called 'three-year plan' sold by the owner then it again becomes clear that this organization does not respect its fans. That is what my point was in saying that hardcore (self-respecting) fans should disengage from this team.

Hooba and I feel the same way. There is no reason to watch the Grizz for the next 2 years. You know how you watch those fastbreaks where the ball never touches the floor. The grizz offense will be the exact opposite of that. The ball will be pounded into the court, slowly, with no ball or player movement. We had the least assists in the league last year. It will only get worse, and yield very little improvement in the win category.

Defense? The Grizz still have defencies at 4 spots (I'm giving them a slight improvement at the center position, which should benefit marginally for swapping Darko for Thabeet's rookie year. Even though Hasheem the Dream may cover other's defensive liabilities, he has never been a stalwart at guarding his own man).

This defensive model has been tried before, most recently with the Nuggets during the marcus camby reign. In 06-07 Camby won D Player of the year, led the league in blocked shots, and his team gave up almost 104 ppg. This number deceptively high bc of the team's pace, but still, a high number. Per 100 possessions, they were ranked 11th -- still, far from an elite team.

I would be amazed if the grizz were the 11th best defensive team this year, employing a far less experienced and, frankly, far less talented defensive version of that team.

The acquisition of Z-Dirt is a bandaid over the need for a power forward, but he is an infected bandaid. He will score points, and grab rebounds - when he is inclined to do so, and of course, not injured. He will not pass or play defense. I hope he stays out of 201 poplar, but the track record indicates otherwise.

Finally, we didn't acquire Z-Dirt for nothing. We gave up alot.

1). How the Clips talked us down from including Jaric, on a player that there was literally no market for, I will never know. We not only took their biggest problem, but we cleared playing time for their biggest asset, AND gave them cap room starting THIS YEAR. They have 20m in cap space in 2010. We will have none. If you had told that scenario to any of us a month ago, we would have said you're crazy.

2). Our cap situation now precludes us from making any significant acquisition until 2011. We gave up the flexibility that Wallace sold us on ever since he traded away Pau. There are stories that we will resign Rudy before the end of the summer. How will we add any new pieces when Rudy's extension kicks in? (Also, our two highest paid players will also be our two worst defenders).

Sidenote: we will not be able to resign Gasol, and frankly, he won't want to be here splitting time with Thabeet. I have already said goodbye to him. If there was any reason not to draft Thabeet, that is it right there. By splitting his minutes with Thabeet, we have both antagonized one of our hardest workers, and cut his production. If that isn't a way to depress an asset's trade value, I dont know what is.

3). We butchered the opportunity to build a competitive team in a fiscally responsible way. In a year where most teams are guarding their cap space for the future, in a year where we had our best shot at acquiring a FA that would fix our most glaring need, we gave that up for an alleged felon. Watch what contract David Lee signs. Watch what Paul Millsap signs. If they both make over 10m a year average, I will be surprised. The money simply isn't out there. We had a chance to add a legitimate piece. Our owner doesn't spend, an in a year when we could add a good piece at a reasonable price, we passed. Instead, we will again put our hopes in the lottery. Except we will be slotted in the 7-11 range, rather than the 4-7 range, otherwise known as NBA purgatory. Too bad to be competitive, too good to acquire a high pick. The added bonus: 2010 is a good year for PF's. We will now likely be picking the player the other teams passed on, rather than having our pick of the litter.

4). It means something when the rest of the basketball world is laughing at you. It means you are incompetent. The Jailblazers, Isaiah's Knicks, Bill Simmons beloved Dunleavy Clips. We are now them. Get used to it. We are a punchline, and rightfully so. No basketball person would construct a team this way. There is literally no reason to expect this team to "compete for a championship" or even make the playoffs. Name me 8 teams that the Grizz are better than. Name me 10. Name 12. In 2011 it will be the same, except we will have a chance again. We will have "flexibility" again. We will have 2 more lottery picks under our belts as well.

And I will tune in again. Z-Dirt won't be here any more. Neither will Lionel Hollins. Neither will Chris Wallace. I can only hope the same can be said for the man who is the real problem. Michael Heisley.

Matt H - While I am still not convinced this was the BEST move for the team to make, I think you are shortsighted on a few of your points.

1) Randolph has a history of being a malcontent, not a convict. He was charged with a DUI, as have many athletes from every sport and even our own George Bush, who ran the country for 8 years. Do not assume that since he was on a team nicknamed the "jailblazers" that he has actually been in and out of jail his whole career.

2) He has a history of an attitude problem, which stems solely from his time in Portland. He was not traded out of NYC because of any reported run-ins, he was traded because of his contract and the fact that the Knicks wanted to clear cap space for the free agent class of 2010. He was traded out of LA because they drafted Blake Griffin, who is their PF of the future. Any other team in the NBA would have done the same thing. People are quick to take his time in Portland, and his obvious personality clash with Nate McMillan, and extrapolate that across his entire career, calling him a "team cancer." He very well may be, but none of those verified reports came out of NYC or LA. He was traded for the size of his contract.

3) His contract does not preclude us from any cap space until 2011. I suspect his expiring contract next summer will be a valuable commodity for someone that needs to rent him for a year then clear the books. If he does not work out here in Memphis this year, I see no problem finding a willing taker for his expiring contract next summer. The only reason more teams were not jumping at the idea of getting Z-Bo is that they want to be players in next summer's FA class, which the Grizz have no chance in. None of the big FA like Bosh, LeBron, Wade or Amare are going to want to sign extended deals in Memphis when faced with better options like NYC, LA, Phoenix, and pretty much any other NBA city besides Minny. We have to build our team through the draft and I think we are well on our way to doing just that. Even the draft "experts" from ESPN and the like agree that Wallace and Memphis has done extremely well in the draft the last two years. We have an excellent young core. Z-Bo is filling a need, and that is all. If he works out, great. If not, we will get one of the young stud PF (of which there are many) out of next year's draft and continue to grow and get better.

This is not what Grizz fans want to hear, and it is not even what I want to hear, because no one in Memphis wants to keep watching the grizz lose 55-60 games a season for even one more year. But, to get better, sometimes you have to get worse, and we have done that (the last three years in a row), so now I feel like we are moving upward.

GCmemphis, you are more optimistic about the Grizz chances than I am, and that's fine. However, parts of your response are just inaccurate. Z-Dirt's transgressions do not stem "solely from his time in Portland." Just last year, he was arrested on suspicion of DUI. The charge was later reduced to reckless driving, but he nonetheless spent the night at the LA version of 201 Poplar (thus the reference). He also had multiple transgressions in high school:

"His troubles started at 14, when he shoplifted a pair of pants and had to serve 30 days in a juvenile detention center. In 1997, he was placed under house arrest for 30 days because of a conviction for battery. Two years later, he was in juvenile detention again, this time for selling a stolen gun.
That offense came during his junior year of high school. Smedley suspended Randolph for the remainder of the basketball season."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/02/sports/b…

Im not going to bother posting any more links to articles: simply google, "Zach Randolph, criminal record" and you will get quite a bit of evidence to refute that part of your post. Yes, he did keep his nose clean during his time with the Knicks, but that was the exception, not the rule.

My other point is 3-fold: 1). At the end of the 2011 season, we will have Gasol and conley looking for extensions, and OJ one year away from what will almost surely be a max contract. You can't be serious in thinking that we will actually trade Randolph for MORE salary. They will let him expire, so they can pay those players (and I don't think they will even pay Marc). Thats the plan.

2). Large expiring contracts don't move, especially large ones that have attitude problems attached. T-Mac hasn't moved yet (although that may change). Starbury was bought out. Szerbiak. Lafrentz. All players that were less problematic than Randolph (though admittedly, less talented). The last big expiring deal to move was... Kwame Brown, and he made almost HALF of what Randolph will make in his final year. Most times, teams just let these guys wipe off their books, looking to start fresh. Which leads me to my final point.

3). The market for expiring contracts is high right now, because teams are literally killing themselves to clear up as much salary cap room as possible for next year. There will be far fewer teams capped out in 2010-2011, and most of the ones that are, will be happy with their purchases. Besides, Randolph's contract is almost too large to be valuable. Only 10 players make about 17m next year. There is not a single situation where the player in question is both: a). not desired by his present team, and b). worth the Grizz acquiring (with the possible exception of Ray Allen or Michael Redd's corpse).

Admittedly, we could find a package of several contracts to make the money work. I am not saying that there wouldn't be a situation that would be beneficial for the Grizz to use his contract to acquire more help, I'm saying that the 3 factors detailed above seriously mitigate the likelihood of that happening. It is foolish to simply say, "hey, we can trade the guy bc he'll be expiring in 2 years," when that is no guarantee, and even more likely, they will just let him wipe off the books. Which is why, in conclusion, I say: see you in 2011.

Matt I appreciate your opinion and understand the frustration and dissappointment. But might I suggest we wait until the trade deadline before giving up on the team? Though disapointing in many ways, we got some hard working, blue collar type players in the draft. Mayo, Gay and conley looked very good at the end of last season and Gasol showed leadership and a tough attitude.

Lets wait and see how this shakes out. I get the feeling that Randolph is a weak willed and a less than bright guy. Lets see how his attitude and work ethic is effected by this team before we write it all off.

This draft and trade might spell disaster for the team, but lets give it a shot first.

Hollins impressed me last year. Not for great planning but for his self confidence and his ability to get the most out of the team. Lets see what he can do we an offseason and some new guys.

Its been said that the vision for this team is the bad boys of the south. This draft and trade fit that vision. Even a vision one disagrees with is preferable to the lack of vision we have had.

I am usually very optimistic and even I am wary about these moves. But if you look (and from your posts I know you can see a little glimmer of hope in there) you can see it.

Lets give it a bit of time and see if this vision starts to take form. Will we have more of an identity this year? Thats something that has been largely missing since Brown.

Its going to be an interesting year. If all of our fears come true. Then we can leave our support for the team on the table feeling we gave them every chance. But imo, doing so now would be a touch premature.

That's my opinion anyway.

Guys,

Having an NBA team in Memphis is a dream.

They've made some moves I liked - trading Wesley Person for Mike Miller....

And some I didn't .....Eddie Jones for Posey and JWILL?

But, right now, I feel we are on the right track. I like what Wallace is doing. We are being resourceful and creative in our approach. And, for the first time since West left, it feels like we have a direction and an understanding of how we can compete with less money.

Zach Randolph is a BIG TIME player in this league. Is he a boy scout? No. But, we are paying him to play basketball at a high level. He does that well. And frankly, I find him to be a nice fit in this urban city of great diversity with personalities like Elvis, Muck Sticky, and Willie Herrenton..

I have watched virtually every game and the one thing we have lacked was a connection to this team. I suggest to you that one major component has been the lack of toughness. That is a major requirement for this target audience.

I think the moves in the draft coupled with the acquisition of Zach, push us in that direction in short order. That is a good thing. We also filled some real needs with real NBA talent.

An addition, its important to get some "name" players in here from time to time even if we don't keep them long. It is good for PR, attendance, and it helps us with future stars. It says to the world - stars come to Memphis.

I would ask you to continue to support the team through all the perceived ups and downs and try to remember that its really great that we have a team to follow.

Wow. Are you two competing for CH's job?

Edit: Mike Miller for Drew Gooden and Wesley Person for Bonzi Wells

very seldom do I post replies....but feel compelled to.

The Grizz trading for Zach Randolph after drafting Thabeet is a pathetic basketball decision. We have a very good young post in Gasol who is developing into a good offensive player and can guard large slow 5's. He has no ability to defend the 4. So what do we do? We draft with the # 2 pick.... an offensively challenged defensive post that also cannot defend the 4.

We then trade Darko to the Knicks for Q, who is in the midst of collapsing as a meaningful player, and flip him for a completely one dimensional low post scorer who could not guard Heiseley. Eagerly await watching Randolph guarding the 3 point shooting 4's that stretch the floor....as ZR waits for them at the basket.

So we have no one other than Arthur who can guard a 4, have committed HUGE dollars to a player NO ONE in the NBA wanted and now have an albatross on our salary cap for 2 more years

Whoever is making these decisions is a complete moron that should, if an employee, be FIRED and if it is the owner......sell the team because you are an embarassment to professional sports

Not to hijack this thread...

From the excellent TrueHoop:

What's Wrong with the NBA - July 3, 2009 6:13 PM

We hear the stories all the time. There are problems with the NBA. If you wanted to make a story about what that means exactly, you might want to use the facts from this star's real biography:

* Raised in a single-parent home, with a rotating cast of father figures.

* No tolerance as a youngster for real coaching. Countless victories are lost to poor strategy.

* Terrible grades and at times a really glaring lack of education.

* Shopping from school to school to find one who will grant a diploma.

* A car provided by an unofficial "sponsor."

* Trouble with teammates, family and sometimes the police, including for outrunning the police in more than one high-speed chase.

* Later in life, divorce, dallying with various celebrities, and a child out of wedlock.

We see these stories and we pull our hair out fretting. What can be done? Someone needs to fix this!

Ban the high school players! Instill dress codes! Lecture everybody about this and that!

Here's a little thing to make you think, though. That biography I outlined up above?

Whose is that? Care to guess?

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-2…

I just posted a more hopeful spin on the Randolph trade, but in reference to this TrueHoop link: I can't say this often enough, but the issue with Randolph is not that he comes from a rough background, but that his on- and off-court issues have had a detrimental impact on his teams.

Observed and understood, Chris. Completely. My only notion with that link was that people change. Sometimes. Maybe. 8)