Reviews are pouring in for Michael Heisley's Chris Vernon Show interview, and they aren't good. At least not for Heisley: On ESPN's True Hoop blog, Henry Abbott questions Heisley's thoughtfulness and wisdom. CBS Sports calls it an "abject trainwreck." At Fan House, Tom Ziller first compares Heisley to Donald Sterling and then comes back with a few tips about other collective bargaining agreement clauses Heisley might want to check out.
I waded through the first half of Heisley's Chris Vernon Show interview here. Let's now finish it up:
Vernon: Why are you responsible for making the basketball decisions?Heisley: Why? I'll tell you why. Because I'm the guy who makes up the difference between what we bring in in revenue and what we put out to pay for players. And believe me, kid, that is a lot of money.
Vernon: But you would admit that's not your expertise?
Heisley: What's not my expertise?
Vernon: Basketball.
Heisley: I know as much about basketball as most people. I've been a pro sports basketball fan for longer than most of these people have been alive.
This is a common refrain whenever Heisley gets pushed on Grizzlies-related issues, bringing it back to financial issues even when the questions are not related to financial issues. A year or so ago, after a "chalk talk" with fans, Heisley held an informal press conference. I asked him three different times about issues relating to the team's organizational structure — his increased and increasingly public role as decision maker, the lack of input his general manager had in assembling most of the team's basketball staff, the rare-if-not-unprecedented 1.5 year contract his coach was then working under. None of this was at all related to spending and yet, each time, Heisley started barking defensively about how people said he hasn't spent, but he'd spent plenty.
The generally unprovoked defensiveness about spending pops up in this interview as well, but preceding exchange offers a different spin on financial justification. Heisley's losses, in his mind, justify his hands-on approach, regardless of the wisdom or effectiveness of the approach.
A little later, Heisley made references to his various advisers — in and outside the organization — which prompted a puckish retort from Vernon:
Vernon: I would hope you would stop talking to whoever told you to take Thabeet.Heisley: Oh, so now we're going to talk about how bad Thabeet was? I would love for you to go back and do a little research, partner. In the front page of the Commercial Appeal, do you remember what they advised me about Rubio? They told me if I didn't everybody in Memphis would run me out of Memphis. Read [Geoff] Calkins' article. Some of the people who told me to go with Thabeet are supposedly some of the best basketball minds in the NBA. Use your imagination.
So much to unpack here, and I won't even get into his focus on the media he alleges to not care about.
For starters, Heisley seems to think he dodged a bullet by not taking Ricky Rubio. Setting aside the reality that there were other viable options (such as Tyreke Evans, James Harden, and Stephen Curry), the truth is that Rubio would have been a much better pick than Thabeet.
For starters, instead of paying Thabeet roughly $9 million in guaranteed money in his first two seasons as a purely developmental project, the team could used his roster spot on a more useful free agent while Rubio was developing overseas. (This is under the assumption that Rubio would not have played in the NBA last season as a #2 pick. I suspect he would have still remained in Spain, but that is not certain.)
Then, if Rubio eventually came over to play for the Grizzlies, the team would have a far superior player ready to contribute. (I think Rubio will be a star.) And if Rubio balked at playing for the Grizzlies, the team would still be able to trade his rights, which, I would argue, would fetch something more valuable than Thabeet.
Secondly, Heisley's provocative final assertion about who advised him to take Thabeet seems to be alluding to Jerry West. Knowing what we know about whom Heisley talks to, I don't know to whom else he could be referring.
Finally, if you've been paying close attention, Heisley has referred to Vernon as "son," "kid," and "partner." At this point, I was waiting for him to drop "pilgrim," but maybe Heisley isn't a John Wayne fan.
Heisley: I'll tell you something. In 10 years I've been in Memphis, we've made the playoffs three times, okay? Go back and look at all of the small market teams in the NBA and see how many over the last 10 years have been in the playoffs three times. I think you'll find out we're in the middle of the list. … The hardest thing I ever did in my life was try to make a winner out of a small-market team in the NBA. Not many places have done it.
Okay, Mr. Heisley, we'll do that. According to Wikipedia, here are the 12 smallest markets in the NBA, ranked according to the number of playoff appearances made over the past ten years. (Rank, from smallest to largest, among market size in parenthesis):
San Antonio Spurs (8th smallest market): 10
Utah Jazz (1st): 7
Orlando Magic (9th): 7
New Orleans Hornets (2nd): 6
Indiana Pacers (6th): 6
Sacramento Kings (11th): 6
Milwaukee Bucks (5th): 5
Cleveland Cavaliers (10th): 5
Portland Trailblazers (12th): 5
Memphis Grizzlies (4th): 3
Oklahoma City Thunder (3rd): 1 (in two seasons)
Charlotte Bobcats: (7th): 1 (in six seasons)
So, actually, no: The Grizzlies rate of playoff appearances for a small-market franchise is not in the middle of the list. Among the teams that have existed in their current city for a full 10 seasons, the Grizzlies are actually last. And as Fan House's Tom Ziller pointed out on Twitter, the Bobcats and the Los Angeles Clippers are the only franchises with fewer wins than the Grizzlies since Michael Heisley purchased the team.
Heisley: We're in the low 60s in our payroll this season. That puts us above more 50 percent of the teams in the NBA.
It's hard to fully fact check this assertion until closer to the start of the season. I have no quarrel with the team's overall spending this season, but I'm skeptical that this claim is accurate. I will revisit this when the information is easier to access.
Heisley: Jerry West and I talk frequently about what I should do.
Heisley: I don’t know why they don't do it and quite bluntly I don't really care why they don't do it. I basically am trying to run my team. I'm trying to run my business. They're trying to run theirs. It's a good question. Why don't they do it? I don’t really care what the answer is.
This is, again, in reference to the Henry negotiation, but the attitude Heisley expresses has wider implications. The Grizzlies aren't just an independent business that Heisley owns. It is also one of 30 franchises in a pro sports association. It competes with other franchises on the court and in pursuit of talent and it is governed by the same set of rules. Any owner or team operator should care very much about how other teams operate and about how his team functions within the context of the league. This doesn't mean a team shouldn't be free to buck precedent and waver from standard operating procedure. But when you do so, you should have a sense of the implications. Heisley doesn't seem as if he can be bothered to put his actions in a wider context.
Heisley: [You say] everybody I've got is a yes man. I'm sure Lionel Hollins would love to hear that you called him a yes man. Because I'll tell you one thing, you don't know Lionel Hollins. He's definitely anything but a yes man. I just don't believe that to cast these people who are working for the Grizzlies as a bunch of yes men, I don't think it's the case. They do not have the authority that Jerry West had. That's very true
Hollins has definitely shown backbone and earned respect for it, so no argument with the owner defending his coach here. But, again, Heisley undercuts his top executive, this time by immediately naming an ostensibly lower level (lower in terms of the organizational chart, which theoretically runs from owner to GM to coach) figure as a response to Vernon's negative criticism.
This exchange continues:
Vernon: The reason I say that is that given any opportunity to neuter them publicly and act as if they have less power, you do it.Heisley: What?
Vernon: Almost across the board, you take every decision on yourself, which makes us all sit back and say, what are these other people responsible for?
Vernon: So, you're saying that all the other owners in the league don't sit down and make decisions?
This is the crux of the problem. Though he says he doesn't care how other teams operate, he seems to think he's operating in the same manner as other teams. But there's only one other owner who seems to be as directly involved in such a wide range of basketball decisions and as prominent in media reports as a quoted source about all manner of team operations. And that's Dallas' Mark Cuban. And you know what? Heisley is no Cuban. I'll give Cuban something of a pass as an exception to the norm for two reasons: 1. His history of success. And 2. His demonstrated knowledge of team-building concepts, league practices, and cutting-edge basketball ideas. Cuban is knowledgeable enough to have moderated a panel at the last Sloan Sports Analytics Conference. It's unimaginable that Heisley (or, to be fair, most other NBA owners) could do the same.
The Grizzlies buzz phrase of the summer has been "best practices," which is what Chris Wallace has deployed to defend the team's negotiating stance toward Henry. But Michael Heisley should tune into how most successful franchises operate and adopt another league-wide "best practice": Owners who hire good basketball operations personnel, set up a set of goals and operating strategies, then step back and let them do their jobs, especially without a constant stream of distracting and spotlight-hogging public appearances.
Wrapping up, I can't leave out this near aside toward the end:
Vernon: All of your basketball guys wanted you to resign Hakim Warrick.Heisley: That's not true at all. … We tried to sign Hakim Warrick and he wouldn't sign the contract. If we hadn't have withdrawn the offer, he could have held us to it until December, the trade deadline. I hated to get rid of Hakim Warrick. We didn't try to get rid of Hakim Warrick. We tried to keep Hakim Warrick.
I don’t even know where to start with all of this. First, the trade deadline is in February, not December. Second, if the Grizzlies had kept the offer sheet out to Warrick, it would have resolved itself by the start of the season, not December. This all seems so nonsensical that I fear I'm overlooking something that would better explain what Heisley is trying to say.
As for his assertion that there was not internal disagreement about pulling Warrick's offer sheet — well, I guess I don't know what Heisley people said to him on the subject, but I feel comfortable in saying that most if not all of Heisley's top level basketball staff would have preferred to keep Warrick. So either Heisley is misrepresenting the situation or private misgivings were not fully expressed.
Finally:
Heisley: I love arguing with you.
Heisley thinks this was all great fun, but as the national attention has demonstrated, it was in fact a poor — I keep wanting to use the word distressing — performance that did no help to either his reputation or that of his franchise. Heisley may love mixing it up, but the way he goes about it is not productive. His good time is bad for his team.
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Hahaha, this is so funny, its uh, uh, uh, uh, and one more for good measure (Heisley style), uh, really sad.
Under Jerry West's guidance, the Grizzlies had a Top 5 payroll and no playoff wins. They continually whiffed in the draft -- including a stunning abrogation of duty when West walked out of the draft room in a fit of pique leaving others to make the Warrick pick -- and made little to no inroads in building a lasting team culture, infrastructure, identity, etc. And then there is the Cardinal contract. I wonder why Heisley would still be taking advice from him? Perhaps it was the iota of positive media attention the team got as a result of West being at the helm (actual results notwithstanding).
CWIM is making a joke about Heisley's pronunciation of Warrick's name in the interview with Vernon, in which he repeatedly — and rather comically — refers to him as WarWICK.
Normally I would've let it pass if he'd only done it once, not to mention I'm sure he's not used to being publicly challenged like that, but he did it over and over.
Ironically, Donald Sterling got embarrassed(if that's possible)in a similar fashion just last week for basically the same thing:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id…
I heart Verno for this interview. He should replace Wallace(who I also heart for being a decent human being) as his weekly guest...it's painful to listen to when you know that everything he says is nothing but stock PR answers and deflections.
With regards to whether there are any other owners who brag about seeking high profile outside opinions and undercutting their GMs credibility, there is one - J Dolan w/ Zeke. Dont think thats an successful model to follow though
Chris,
After listening to the interview, I read Heisley's "I love arguing with you" comment differently. I don't think Heisley enjoyed the conversation with Verno at all. Verno's questions made Heisley noticeably defensive and tense. I also get a real sense that Heisley knew that the interview was playing out badly (even if he only understood this in a vague and generalized way).
To me, it seemed that the comment was meant as a way of saving face as he abruptly ended the interview. It was sort of "I'd love to keep arguing with you but I've got to go." I don't think Heisley really thought of the interview as playful or idle banter, but he realized that he needed to act as if he was a good sport in order to cut the tension as he cut off the interview.
Herrington, I'm with Craig. I agree with all your analysis except for the part "Heisley thinks this was all great fun . . . " There's no way that's true; I think it's just an attempt to play "good sport".
The man sounded like he was going to have a heart attack on the radio. He absolutely gives the impression, every time he's in public, that he is incredibly prickly and cannot stand backtalk and criticism of any sort.
That much self-belief and lack of tact is great if you are an empire builder or the alpha male in a street gang. Not so much if you are a public figure. If I'm the GM, or anyone else in the org, I tell him to stay away from media, no brainer.
At what point do we, the diehard fans, just give up? I'm serious. I'm not one to do that on a regular basis...heck, I'm a Rams fan (sigh). But, this has gotten out of control. I can't continue to cheer for & support a team that does not seem to really care about its fans. I think Chris Wallace is great and have had the opportunity to sit down with him for a chat a few different times and I do think that given the chance, he could do some really great things here.
But Heisley is completely out of control. The only way, I think, to make a statement is to just walk away. I can find a new team to cheer for all the while hoping that my home town team eventually straightens things out at the top and then I would be happy to come back.
Heisley! Please! Fire yourself! Hire a real GM instead of this fraud in Chris Wallace, aka the worst GM of all time! He is so bad in Boston that you know you only hired him for him to just node his head.
Wow. Just wow.
After hearing this interview, I have come to a decision. First, let me say I genuinely like the guys on this team, and I genuinely like the coaching staff. I wish all of them nothing but the best. I hope they all win multiple championships someday.
But... I am done supporting this team financially. I will NOT be going to ANY games this season. I will NOT be buying ANY merchandise. I may watch them on TV when the chance comes up, but I refuse to send ANY money in Michael Heisley's direction.
I know my relatively small contribution won't be missed by a billionaire, but I was one of the few remaining fans who (stupidly?) continued to spend money on this team. Until Heisley either sells the team, or steps 100% out of the way and lets smarter people run the basketball side of things... I am done.
Congrats Mike, you managed to do something in a quick radio interview that couldn't be done with years of under-achievement and bad luck on the basketball court. You made me lose faith in my team... partner.
Heisley should take a step back and give himself an evaluation.
I give the guy all credit for bringing a team to Memphis. And its success is dependent on his check book. I'm pretty proud of the team we have, and I don't expect Heisley to overspend.
But.....
Can he be an asshole about money, and let talent be someone elses domain? Set a budget and stick to it (a lot of companies run this way). I don't think he would get half the haters if he was merely tight. I don't mind that he is making a stand in regards to bonus money. If the NBA is screwed up, they're screwed up. But he is tight, and can't rate a player to save his life. There wasn't one person in the NBA, NCAA, Little League, that had ever seen Thabeet catch a pass, walk without falling, or make a phone call and chew gum at the same time. Was his plan some sort of stem cell replacement therapy?
In spite of Michael Heisley the Grizzlies had the 2nd biggest improvement in wins in the entire league last year going from 24 wins to 40 wins. In spite of MH, somebody's doing something right. Remember Heisley is 74 years old now. Just because of his age, I can see him getting out very soon. The contracts in place will keep this team here long after he's out. Most people really don't think about the owner, they just go to see some good hoops. After all, last years team won more and average attendance and tv ratings both increased. If you were to take a survey of people coming to the games and asked who the owner is, the vast majority couldn't tell you.
@Mid-Town,
I understand and agree with your statistical inferences about attendance and TV ratings increases. However, when you win sub 25 games for 3 consecutive seasons, your attendance and ratings will go up with you actually win 40 games. The issue at heart IMHO is that his answers to Vernon's questions cause me to believe he DOESNT GET what it takes to win and the light bulb might never go off.
I normally agree with most of not all of the stuff you writer concerning the Grizzlies. But I think you are off topic and taking a few of the quotes out of context. And not including necessary context for some of the quotes you use. This interview with Heisley didnt do anything to help him in any regard, but when I listened to the interview the other day. He was honest and straight-forward with his responses. 1st off I think he should allow his basketball ppl to make basketball decisions. PERIORD. He has the right to approve or not approve something. He is the boss. But he shouldn't have to throw that around. In the media!
A few things I didnt feel like where put into proper context:
Hak- after the quote you made ur comments from. You didnt refers that he said, they offer him the exact same deal, and he turned it down.
The Playoffs- That is a wash to me. We are a small market team, but we also just got started. You have teams on ur list of small market teams, that hit it big in the draft....LeBron, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy....
And really I just get the feel you dont like Heisley and gave it to him a little bit. Like I said earlier, Love your writing, I follow you on twitter. But I just get the feel with this blog entry that you are dumping on the owner. Be it fair or unfair, I cant judge. I guess I just expected a little more balance out of you.
Let me try this again. To many errors.
I normally agree with most if not all of the stuff you writer concerning the Grizzlies. But I think you are off topic and taking a few of the quotes out of context. And not including necessary context for some of the quotes you used. This interview with Heisley didnt do anything to help him in any regard, but when I listened to the interview the other day. He was honest and straight-forward with his responses. 1st off I think he should allow his basketball ppl to make basketball decisions. PERIOD. He has the right to approve or not approve something. He is the boss. But he shouldn't have to throw that around in the media!
A few things I didnt feel like where put into proper context:
Hak- after the quote you made ur comments from. You didnt reference that he said, they offered him the exact same deal as the Bucks, and he turned it down.
The Playoffs- That is a wash to me. We are a small market team, but we also just got started. You have teams on ur list of small market teams, that hit it big in the draft....LeBron, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy....
And really I just get the feel you dont like Heisley and gave it to him a little bit. Like I said earlier, I Love your writing, I follow you on twitter. But I just get the feel with this blog entry that you are dumping on the owner. Be it fair or unfair, I cant judge. I guess I just expected a little more balance out of you.