Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Concerns Trump Hopes at Transition Team Meeting
Posted by John Branston on Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:08 PM
And again and again speakers ignored her and politely but firmly told the planning team they do not want changes in the Collierville schools and fear that the merger will harm them.
Members of the planning team went to Collierville United Methodist Church Tuesday night, where several hundred people filled the sanctuary and part of the balcony for a two-hour meeting. They came from Memphis and other parts of Shelby County as well as Collierville, but the dominant sentiment of the 41 speakers was anti-merger and pro status quo.
The listening tour is supposed to do two things: gather suggestions about hopes and concerns that are within the planning team's charge and demonstrate that the appointed group is open-minded and not imposing a preordained agenda, although the pro-merger and anti-merger views of some individual members are well known. Likewise, the names and views of some speakers are by now familiar. Self-styled Memphis government watchdog Joe Saino, merger opponent Ken Hoover, a student reading a prepared text and wearing a Stand For Children t-shirt, and a Memphis Education Association official spoke. Other speakers live in Memphis and work in Collierville or vice versa, and several of the speakers said they were teachers and/or parents of school-age children.
Speakers, most of whom gave their names but could not always be heard clearly or left before they could be interviewed, said the merger is "doomed to failure" and "we have a really wonderful thing going" and "smaller is better" and "it seems like there is more parent involvement in Shelby County schools" and "face the truth about what is wrong with all the issues facing urban school systems" and "if it's not broken don't fix it" and "if you don't have a system you can respect and get behind then you're lost" and "I'm concerned that my kids will be bussed downtown" and "my hope is that this plan does not succeed" and "there will be flight to private schools" and "Memphis proves that spending more money isn't the answer" and "we need a school system that dos not exclude prayer or God."
There were also speakers who favor the merger or at least favor giving the planning team a fair shot, but not as many as the opponents. This, of course, was no surprise. Collierville boasts some of the highest-performing public schools in the state. But county residents did not get to vote in the Memphis referendum that approved the charter surrender of Memphis City Schools. School system consolidation was considered so unpopular that the earlier dual referendum on general government consolidation made a point of excluding the school systems and still failed overwhelmingly in the county outside of Memphis.
Summarizing, Prescott said the speakers' hopes reflect the guiding principles of the transition team, including high academic standards, a world-class school system, and community schools. It was a game effort, but called to mind that high school favorite poem "The Charge of the Light Brigade" and the lines about "cannons to the right of them, cannons to the left of them" and "someone had blundered." On this night, the anti-merger sentiment was clear. It could surely not be called a wake-up call because it was so predictable.
Comments (36)
Showing 1-36 of 36
I fully expect suburbia to wage an all out war against the county wide school district through the legislature in Nashville. I can't wait to see what Norris, Todd, Kelsey and their ilk come up with this year.
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If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.
I should go to the next one dressed like Eddie from Iron Maiden, waving a tattered British flag.
Collierville has spoken. Some of the speakers were just spouting things that have no basis in fact, I'm afraid my child will be bused to downtown schools, etc. I would think
j that no child, now attending a suburban school, will be bused anywhere, within the confines of Memphis, proper. Vice versa, no child will be bused from inner city Memphis to the suburbs. It is just not feasible.
What was so laughable about this transition team is the fact that they have no plenary power, the force of law. They cannot make change, all they can do is recommend and make a final report to the state. The LEA, local education association, SCS Board doesn't have to take any of the suggestions that this powerless transition makes. The ruling by Judge Mayes stated this in his ruling.
Sure, the state can legislate changes that this transition makes, however, this could present a problem, special legislation, aimed at one particular group and/or entity. Under the Tennessee Constitution, that is illegal. I don't think the state is going to force all county boards of education to give up their local control of its school districts; that would be political suicide. The other 2,000 lb elephant in the room is what ruling will Judge Mayes make on the constitutionality of the part of the law giving municipalities the right to form their own school districts, MSD's. This will only be ruled upon when a municipality actually tries to form a msd. I don't know how he will rule and no one else knows. Generally, in these type of cases, Judges usually give temporary restraining orders out to keep the action from being taken while waiting to rule. The TRO is usually given because it is easier to stop the action, before it is started, than to reverse everything that would have been done if, initially allowed to proceed. In other words, it is better to stop the gordian knot from being tied than to try to undo it.
After all of the delays, and their will be delays; how long, nobody knows, the question of the property and schools will have to be settled. Some of the suburbian people pin their hopes on a 113 year old tennessee supreme court ruling. I don't believe this will hold up. I would much rather be the entity, the SCS, with deeds, in hand, that says I am the owner of these properties and schools, rather than a group saying they belong to us. That will be a separate lawsuit, probably held in Memphis Chancery Court. I can't realistically see any elected judge from Memphis ruling that the schools must be given to the suburban municipalities. I know that justice is blind, however, these judges have to stand for re-election.
I am not saying that, the suburban cities will not get their msd's, I am saying that it will be time consuming and awfully expensive.
I can't understand why the transition planning commission is going around holding hearings in the community. I don't see where they have any responsibility to advocate or oppose merger of the administrations of the two school districts. Their responsibility is to draw up a plan for that merger, which must take place. Formation of municipal school districts is an entirely separate issue that the citizens and officials in the various municipalities (and maybe the courts) must decide.
icov40,
At least in theory, the folks in Collierville will come under the new county wide school system, and whatever happens they will certainly be helping pay for the new system, so it seems logical that the commission planning the new system should hear from them, and everyone else in the county, before they submit their plan. I didn't attend the meeting but from what I've read about it the commission may also be trying to pour a little oil on the water out in the suburbs in the hope that they will forego creating their own school system.
Memphis-elected school board members will make up the majority of the new consolidated school system board and will be in charge of hiring the superintendant and overall management of the system. We've all seen how a Memphis-elected school board can destroy public eduction, just look at MCS the past 20 years. This is why surburban residents are so opposed to this merger and can anyone with any common sense whatsoever really blame them?
Flyhigh, I see that you have drank from the cup of misunderstanding that a lot of people have.
It is an imperial fact that, mostly urban schools have always lagged behind their white counterparts, every since the abolishment of slavery. This is an undeniable fact and is irregardless of which, state, city, county or who constitutes the administration. After almost 300 years of deprecation, steps to catch up with the afore status quo takes many, many years to catch up. That is also a fact. How long did it take the whites to catch up after the dark ages? One hundred years after being denied is a very short time, especially when only the last 30 or so of those years was with equality in funding and/or access to quality teaching standards and equipment.
Let me put it to you in another way. Look how far the african american population has progressed since abolition of slavery, how about jist the last 30 years. If a people, that was brought here in chains, enslaved, deprived of a family unit, education, a sense of pride and first class humanism in them, it is a miracle that these people are only 10 to 15 points behind a people that had all of the freedoms and a 3 to 400 year headstart. Never thought of it in that light, did you?
I think that you are afraid that, at this rate, we will quickly be on your same level. When this happens, it will have a profound effect on economics, for it will be truly a level playing field, based on pure ability.
This is not said in a racist way, just the pure facts.
As others have said, the combined system, whatever territory it covers, is just going to be a general county school system operation under the general laws, rules and regulations of the state. There will be no charter or anything that specifies how the system is to be operated. The county school board may very well adopt whatever the transition commission recommends. But at anytime in the future, the board will be able to change how the system is operated as long as it stays within state law. It appears that under the court's order, the policies and administration of Memphis city schools will continue for the rest of this year and next year. Then they will go away and will be replaced by the Shelby County board's polices as amended through the transition commission process.
It seems to me the proper course for the transition commission should have been for the commission to develop specific recommendations for the merger of the systems' administrations and policies. Then before a final vote they should take the recommendations to the public to gain input on any possible changes that should be considered. That way the public would be reacting to something specific rather than just this general idea of merger and how we do it. Again, I think what they are doing now is a waste of time and energy.
Let me try to clarify this a bit.... first off, Mr. Covington is more right than just about anyone else I've heard on this issue. I also defer to his expertise on the subject matter.
Also, I am not opposed to municipal districts, although I do truly believe that a single county wide system broken down into more manageable sub-districts is much more feasible and makes more sense in the big picture. By the same token, I fully expect the Christianban idiots in Nashville to continue to nurture the seed of hatred and distrust by pushing through more post facto legislation in an attempt to further separate the suburbs from the future SCS (and in their mind, Memphis).
OTP, would you please read Marcus Pohlmann's book "Opportunity Lost - Race and Poverty in the Memphis City Schools"? You can order it from Amazon like I did. You will find that what is going on in MCS is no mystery, it has already been thoroughly examined by Dr. Pohlmann and the problems are persuasively and clearly presented in his book.
Or, you can keep barking up the wrong tree. It is entirely up to you.
We do not want the failed systems to infect the functioning system with it's policies.
mad_merc, if you were referring to SB25 being ex post facto, Judge Mays didn't see it that way. He said it was just fine, although I'll admit at the time I didn't really understand his reasoning. My recollection is that it had something to do with the timing of the referendum. My understanding is the referendum was inconsequential because MCS officially ceased to exist when the City Council voted prior to the referendum. However, the judge said the legislation passed muster, which is all that matters. It is explained in his ruling, though.
We do not want the failed systems to infect the functioning system with it's policies."
SCS isn't all that great right now, it's mediocre on its best day. SCS's results with poor inner city kids haven't been any better than MCS. Good students make good schools, not vice versa. My 3 kids are in SCS currently, btw. They'll stay there, or in whatever municipal district is formed. They'll get a good education mainly b/c my wife and I see to that, no matter what system they are in.
"Good students make good schools, not vice versa." BINGO!
So this merger is going to make a lot of suburban folk mad and not do anything to help the inner city kids?
ICOY40, THAT IS THE MOST SENSIBLE IDEA THAT ANYONE HAS WRITTEN SINCE THIS MESS STARTED.!
Let the current SCS, lame duck board, make policy based upon what the public wants, within reason. I mean both the city of Memphis and suburban Shelby County. Kudos to you.
As far as Judge Mayes ruling, he ruled that SB25, only the portions he ruled on, was constitutional because it didn't change the merger, it only filled a void and clarified how to proceed with it. HE DID NOT RULE ON THE PART OF LIFTING THE BAN ON MUNICIPAL AND SPECIAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS. He said that it was not ripe because no entity had yet tried to form a msd. He will rule on that part when action is actually taken to form a msd. Uhoh, I suggest that you go back and read the ruling, very carefully. The bill had a sever clause in it; if any portion of SB25 was found to be unconstitutional, it would not affect the other parts of the bill.
Packrat, you are correct. Each child is a separate entity, when it comes to academic success. If, with the support of the parents, does his/her work, study hard, they will succeed, regardless of what another child does. That is why they give individual report cards and colleges assess each student on his/her own merit.
I believe, only my personal opinion, that the easiest ruling on the lifting the ban on msd's that the judge could make is, that part of the law is post ex facto, it came after the mcs had surrendered its charter. Of course, all the state legislature has to do is pass it again as stand alone legislation. I believe that is the route he will take, and he just might say it is special legislation that was intended only to punish the residents of Memphis, MCS.
I predict there will be a huge influx of hip Collierville kids wanting spots at our Memphis Optional Schools. Could you blame them?
OTP, one day you will succeed in your dream of turning Memphis and Shelby County into a Third World ghetto. And the fact that with all the give away programs and preferential treatment blacks have received from this country, state and city for the past 50 years and still are not as you say "on the same level as whites" is truly pathetic! You are loser bent on dumbing everything around you down. I know the truth about your people hurts. You take over MCS and run it for 25 years and it gets worse and worse, depsite having he most budget oney to spend of any other school system in the state. No excuses for your people now, OT Fool!
Stooplow, er, Flyhigh, you're an idiot. Go join the White Citizens Council.
Packrat you go join the Black Panthers. Truth hurts. Truth is MCS was destroyed when blacks took over now the fools who run it want to take over managing a consolidated system. Now that makes no sense whatsoever and anyone with any common sense whatsoever knows it! You keep on keeping it real and turn Memphis into a total Third World ghetto -- you're very close to it now!
I'm white, moron. I live in Germantown. And people like you are the ones who have held this city back for 100 years. MCS was "destroyed" when white people refused to obey the law and integrate the schools. Bussing resulted and all the white people ran away like chickenshits. If you don't like black people, here's a tip doofus: you're living in the wrong place.
Flyhigh, I really feel pity for you. You write these things with no degree of facts, what-so-ever. A racist that knows the facts is one thing, but a person that readily takes, as truth, what they say is a dangerous person. I will now bust your bubble on what you wrote. Food stamps and welfare is consumed by more whites than blacks. Here is the link:
http://www.theroot.com/views/food-stamp-fa…
I HOPE THAT YOU AND OTHERS THAT WANT THE TRUTH READ THIS. IF NOT, IT GOES TO SHOW THAT YOU ARE MORE INTERESTED IN BIAS THAN THE TRUTH.
As far as we have had the school district, MCS, for 25 years and ran it into the ground, answer me this? You had the school district for over 250 years and you still have the SCS, WHY ARE YOU ONLY RATED 10 POINTS AHEAD OF US. WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM.
PS; The old myth that President used, the welfare queen has been proven to be completely false. All you have to do is google welfare queen, Ronald Reagan.
Scott, the "hip Collierville kids" always had the opportunity to attend MCS optional schools and didn't. Why should that change now?
OTP, I think Mayes ruled as he did to give the municipalities time to get their plans in place for their MSD's.
"I believe, only my personal opinion, that the easiest ruling on the lifting the ban on msd's that the judge could make is, that part of the law is post ex facto, it came after the mcs had surrendered its charter."
Since he has already ruled that SB 25 was not ex post facto by approving the planning commission, it would be difficult to rule that another part of the same bill is. I'm betting he will rule MSD's legal and not impose a restraining order on formation.
Packrat, the quality of the school does matter. A school that cannot offer any classes beyond the equivalent of Algebra II in all subject areas does not send kids to MIT, Cal Tech, the Ivies, etc. They are just plain not prepared for the level of work at the top tier schools. They might have been if they had been exposed to a higher level of education, but they weren't and are too far behind to catch up. Top tier schools do not offer remedial courses.
MCS had problems just getting books from the warehouse to the classroom. How will you feel when your kids come home from school after the first week and tell you that there are no books?
OTP thinks all state laws are DOA until they've passed federal muster, so he clings to hope that once one of the municipalities starts to put together its own district (making it "ripe"), Judge Mays will swoop in and force the suburbs to bend to the will of Martavius Jones and his cabal downtown and join the People's Republic of Memphis' new school district.
Its not going to happen, OTP. I do believe you are just going to have to continue to eat Mark Norris' dust because he has been ahead of you and the quitters downtown on this all along.
While we are here, why don't you tell us why you think the City of Memphis, home of the worst school district in the state before it was dismantled by the Memphis politicians, should be running the schools in Bartlett? What exactly is it they bring to the table that will make Bartlett schools better?
To Flyhigh and others of his ilk.
Please get your facts straight on welfare and foodstamps and other programs. First of all, the welfare system was designed, primarily, for the poor rural whites. Rural Appalachia was a prime mover of these programs that also brought TVA to the region. Whites have always been the largest receivers of government programs. Even affirmative action has helped more white women than african americans.
African Americans only started participating in thes programs, especially in the Jim Crow south due to the enforcement of the 14th amendment, equal protection clause of the U. S. Constitution.
So, Flyhigh and others, this information is readily available, thanks to that Al Gore invention, the internet. lol
Here's the thing; if the future prosperity of Shelby County and the entire Memphis region depends upon keeping a huge part of our population (the "bad" part) somehow segregated and apart from the "good" part, then we're doomed to fail and ALWAYS have been so doomed. Our "bad" part is way too big and too pervasive. We either come to terms with that fact, and the rampant poverty that exists ALL OVER this region (not just in inner city Memphis, anybody here ever driven around Marshall County MS or Mississippi County, AR?), or watch this entire region fail.
OTP, excuses, excuses, excuses. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept to you and your ilk. Keep up your fight to turn Memphis into a Third World ghetto - you are getting close to your dream!
DaGreek, it cheers and warm my heart when you post without checking facts. Judge Mayes had no other option but to not rule on the part of the SB25 law about lifting the ban on msd's. There is a federal judicial rule that forbid judges from hearing lawsuits on issues that may or may not happen. If this were to be allowed, you would tie up the courts on cases that is based on sheer speculation. That is why he didn't rule.
He ruled, only on the merger and transition, as not being ex post facto. He explained that since the parts of the law that he ruled on did nothing to change the result, surrender of the MCS charter, and that prior law left a void in how to accomplish asurrender and subsequent consolidation of a system, that large, that a law filling that void and clarifying procedures to be used is not post ex facto. That did not include the provision of the law that lifts the ban on msd's. He also clarified the role of the transition team. He explicitly explained that they had no power, they could act, only as an advisory commission. As I have told others, please reread his decision, very slow and carefully. Also google the word, "ripe", as it refers to federal law. It will explain why Judge Mayes could not hear and/or rule ofn the part of SB25 that lifts the ban on msd's.
Good Luck
So, Packrat, do you think the solution to the area's problem is to let the "bad" part run the schools of the "good" part?
Please explain how this will return the "bad" part to prosperity rather than causing the "good" part to opt out one way or another.
The good news for Shelby County is that that the poor are steadily vacating Memphis for North Mississippi where they enjoy a tax structure that is much more favorable to their gibs-me-dat lifestyle than to the productive lifestyle.
So, Packrat, do you think the solution to the area's problem is to let the "bad" part run the schools of the "good" part?
Hey, you're the ones who are making hay out of "good" and "bad" and digging a moat between the two. Not me. Not to rehash this whole thing, but the SCS board was the entity who started the snowball that led to this charter surrender; what was MCS supposed to do? NOt protect the interests of Memphis and its schoolchildren? Let SCS cordon off the part of the county with the growing tax base? Just lay down and let PIckler and NOrris do whatever THEY wanted? Right.
So now we have what we have. And if there is a unified system (like KNOx and Hamilton counties got) it would be blatantly unconstitutional to do what you suggest; i.e., only allow the "good" people to have a say in running it. Of course, to at least go into this with an open mind before prejudging is obviously too much to ask of some "good" people.
"The good news for Shelby County is that that the poor are steadily vacating Memphis for North Mississippi where they enjoy a tax structure that is much more favorable to their gibs-me-dat lifestyle than to the productive lifestyle"
What a fucking bigot. Typical local right winger.
"Please explain how this will return the "bad" part to prosperity rather than causing the "good" part to opt out one way or another."
Of course. The "bad" people should just always make sure they consider the interests of the "good" people first.
Uh, Packrat I would never characterize the two sides in this debate as "good" and "bad". Those characterizations were yours, and quoted from your post above.
I would like to see a source for your position that the SCS board planned to cordon off part of the county. You know, a quote or an article detailing Pickler or others in SCS discussing this, not a carefully worded quote from an MCS individual saying it could happen.
Also, Packrat, I wouldn't say the post about poor people moving to Mississippi is from a "typical local right-winger". All of the right-wingers I've heard discuss the matter have said it is middle class African-Americans (along with middle class people of other races) who are moving to Mississippi.
I would say that post was in extremely poor taste, which is why I didn't respond to it.
Obviously I agree it was in poor taste, but consider the source.
What's interesting about being white in Memphis, if you also happen to be a conservative-looking suit-and-tie wearing family man is that you get to sometimes hear what people really think, b/c they mistakenly assume you're a right-thinkin' god-fearin' Bible believin' conservative and think the same. With some right wingers, a minority I'll grant, but a significant one, it's like stepping back in time to 1956. I'm sure you all can figure out what I'm talking about.
I can give some examples if you'd like.
No, I won't be needing any examples. I have quite enough of my own, thank you, as does almost every white person who grew up in the south.
However, as much as race is part of politics in Memphis, I don't think the charter surrender had anything to do with race. It was simply done for money and power, the two oldest motives in the book. Who benefits financially? The City of Memphis saves tens of millions of dollars a year by dumping MOE. Who gains power? The politicians in Memphis who end up in control of the new SCS board. Who loses? The kids in Memphis who will have less money per student. Who cares? In the group of people who should care, the parents and politicians in Memphis, none of them. The parents bought the big lie of "unity". The politicians are just politicians, whose main goal is to gain power and get re-elected. Who gets the blame? "The county", which, of course, had nothing to do with it. MCS was on its own for over a hundred years - I don' t remember the exact number. MCS was never a part of SCS, it was a "Special School District" which was allowed to remain in place even as school districts like it were banned in the rest of the state by the General Assembly. All of the problems in MCS were generated by the people who have populated and controlled MCS for all of these years. No amount of re-organization or money is going to fix MCS, IMO. The only thing that will fix MCS is re-establishment of the nuclear family, and that is on the high end of unlikely. So, it is pretty much hopeless, especially when the leaders of the community, as well as the state, blame the schools for all of the problems. There isn't much the parents in the suburbs can do except try to keep their kids out of this mess so they can get a good education, and that is where municipal districts come in.
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