As a Cub Scout leader, I'm very disappointed that some Scout leader decided to parade his boys at this Faux News event. As a true patriot I'm equally disturbed by the misuse of the Gadsden flag and, while I do appreciate folks getting out and making themselves heard, I'm deeply troubled that so many could be so misdirected by corporate interests. Pitiful!

no fan of spending here, just wondering where the tea parties were the last 8 years when W spent like a drunken sailor? no fan of taxes, just wondering where the shouts of socialism and fascism(?!) were when Reagan raised taxes 4 times between '82 & '84? Bush Sr. was ousted for raising taxes, but i certainly don't remember people calling him Hitler.

I'm registered independent so i've got no dog in this fight, but there has been some amazingly ignorant rhetoric flying around for far too long.

If Obama were white, would these protests take place?

re wvfi: We've been here all along. The silent majority of Americans who go to work each day mostly minding their own business. We reached a tipping point with fed spending last fall when the bailouts started. It's not a Repub/Dem issue....I think you missed that point. We are sick of paying taxes to a government that will do nothing but waste it.

re Left wing cracker: if Obama were white he wouldn't be the Prez.....you've posed a non sequitor.

@ thoughthinker: i want to believe that this is non-partisan, that it's about sound economic decisions rather than ideologies... But when you factor in the recent FOX News provocations in lieu of reporting, the childish endorsements from the party which has been AT LEAST 50% responsible for the mess we're in, not to mention the nasty tone of a lot of the signs i'm seeing at these protests, you'll excuse me if I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe it's not purely politics as usual.

One speaker asked, "How many of you are radical right wingers?" Or something VERY close to that. The crowd erupted in cheers. That's how bipartisan it was. I was shooting stills at the time and didn't get the quite exactly.

if they were truly a positive movement, they would dial down the hateful nature of the rhetoric.

most of what i saw yesterday were childish attacks directed at a man who has been in office less than 100 days.

and tt: you're not the majority. the majority voted in november.

I highly recommend watching Frontline's "Ten Trillion and Counting" if you get the chance. W's first Treasury Secretary, conservative Republican Paul O'Neill has some very interesting things to say about his budget meetings with the preseident in the earlier part of this decade. Kind of made me think that if the few who will be affected by Obama's tax hike are that upset (understandably so) about their taxes going up 3.5 cents on each dollar made over $250,000, maybe they could just think of it as penance for allowing the worst President in history to be elected. Twice.

Ah, so THIS was the "Cracker Carnival."

I am still trying to figure out how we are going to pay off our + $1.4 billion in Shelby County debt .....

re sbanbury: Nobody there was directed by any corporate interest. They were like me...they were there because they are sick and tired of working their ass off trying to make a decent living for their family only to see half of theirincome sucked away multitudes of taxes that go lord knows where. We are especially tired of carrying the deadbeat 40% who don't pay a damn dime in taxes. Get real dude.

re B: I think I am in the majority on this issue. You know as well as I do that the last election had nothing to do with this issue. It was "anybody but Bush" and as an extra incentive htere was the black factor. If Obama were white he would not have won the election. Oh...by the way....1)elections come around every two years bucko! Stand by... we only need to change a few votes and it switches back the other way and then my friend you are back on the other side. Many of my friends who supported the boy prez are having serious "buyer remorse" and they can only mae history once. He is one term and out.

re fancycwabs: What's up with the disparaging comment. Why are they "crackers"? That term is offensive and uncalled for. Would you want me to call you a "watermelon"? Probably not so knock it off.

re wvfi: It is a non-partisan issue. Many Democrats are just as sick of high taxes and wasteful spending as many Republicans are. Hell. I'm mad as hell at all politicians. The republicans in congress are acting like the democrats and everybody knows that you can't outspend a democrat. This spending thing is very close to getting out of control and our country and our economy will be damaged for a very long time. There's plenty of nasty tone out there....watched a CNN program lately?

re Chris: I was there for the entire rally. Not one speaker said that or anything close to that...you sir are a liar.

Majority? The Teabaggers couldn't even come close to the size of the protests against the Iraq War when George Bush was polling at 80%.

The Teabagger Movement is brought to you by Newt Gingrich and Dick Armey and their astroturf operations. If left to their own devices, the Teabaggers might not even have been able to attract more than an Ann Coulter appearance.

again I ask: where were the regular, 'non-partisan' folks and their outrage when Bushco was flouting notions of smaller govt., sober spending, balanced budgets, etc.?? Don't be fooled, this whole "protest" was the brainchild of the right-wing blogoshpere, adopted by petulant Congeressional Republicans and then hyped by Fox News.

I probably agree with the current administration about 35% of the time, but at least I know where they stand - and the sort of mess they've been left to attempt to clean up.

And quite frankly I find it absurd to invoke the Boston Tea Party when the two scenarios could not be more different. Our founding fathers would be embarrassed.

Great video, Chris. You gotta feel sorry for the dumb schmoes who were standing around with their stupid signs and tea bags stapled to their hats. Guess FOX News forgot to tell them one of the organizers of these circuses was Dick (Barney Fag)Armey, whose firm, DLA Piper, just last year lobbied for AIG, Lehman Brothers, and Merrill Lynch. He must have been pissing himself silly yesterday as he watched the Palin Pod People protest against the government bailouts that he helped acquire for his Wall Street honcho buds.
We saw this sort of stuff at the McCain events and we'll see it again. This is totally a contrivance of FOX News, Fatboy on hate radio, and all the others who hate Obama and are looking for ways to spew their bile. Most of the poor clucks are too effin dumb and blind to even know why their mad. Their poster child is that old "He's aa...aa..Arab" chick at the McCain rally in Minnesota. Where was their outrage over deficit spending when Dumbass and Dicko went on their drunken sailor spree spending a trillion of borrowed Chinese dough on "spreading freedom" in Iraq? Why weren't they tea-bagging Bush the day he gave Hank Paulson a blank check for the TARP $$$$??? We became a socialist nation with the Paulson bailout, but these idiots had nary a word to say about it because Dubya was still the King. This is just another stunt by the New Republican Party of the Fascist States of Murika. But hey---with a little luck Governor Bigshot down in Texas will do as he promised and seceed and they can all go live in Texas Nation with their Patriot Funny Money until the Mexican drug lords come in and shoot em with the guns and ammo they bought and hoarded during the Bush reign.

re Chris: I was there for the entire rally. Not one speaker said that or anything close to that...you sir are a liar.

Thinker, It was Mark Skoda, the same guy I have at the beginning of the film bragging about being a radical. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it happened, you ill-informed, self-overestimating dick. (Iffin you really feel like playing the name-calling game).

I can't recall exactly how he phrased it other than to say he took a pejorative--the sort of phrase Rantboy might use to describe you-- and turned it into something he could bond with the crowd over. And bond he did.

re Chris: you can't remember exactly how he said it because he didn't say it.....Get your shit together hot rod.....or at least confess that maybe you "misspoke". ;-) But instead you rely on the biggest loon on this site to defend you....what a pussy...

re wvfi" ......where were you?" Are you a bipartisan voter? Re Jeff: are you a bipartisan voter? Anybody else want to weigh in on this???

'm more surprised that a liberal would be complaining about freedom of speech or the right to protest in a peaceful manner from any party, not just because it is republicans doing it. Did liberals only fight for these rights for themselves? The thing that sickens me is how quick we are to turn on a president. I saw it with Carter,Reagan, Clinton, both Bushes, and now Obama. These men are our presidents people we voted them into office as a people and they deserve our respect regardless of whether we completely agree with them on all topics. It is funny how quickly people turn. So many people seem to be so frivolous in their ideals. After 9/11 so many people backed the war on terrorism, but then people started to look for ways out and an excuse to change their minds and turn against a president who was trying to protect us as a people; even to the point of villianizing a president. All I can say is Bush has a big set of balls to hang in there through it all to see it through. Now people are turning on Obama, despite the fact they voted him in based on his proclaimed "change", well this is the change he was talking about. What did you think was going to happen? Yet, I keep hearing about buyers remorse! It seems people's ideals and attitudes and opinions are fickle and follow their pocketbooks. If war gets too pricey then who cares how safe we are from the Taliban. If stimulating the economy means more taxes well then let those who have lost their jobs, lose their homes as well. What a selfish greedy people we have become! Help no one but yourself! Charity begins at home! If it means I can't buy my $200.00 pair of shoes to walk through my $300,000 house and drive my $50,000 gas guzzling SUV, then the president be damned. I'm not a liberal, nor am I conservative...I'm an American...and I'm fed up with the way these last few generations have gone! Whoever reads this: when was the last time you really helped someone versus when was the last time you complained about someone being helped: whether a corporation, or an individual? What does that say about you? Are you a complainer or a doer? Are you and American who wants to pick up and carry your share of the burden we bare right now and make this country better or do you want to sit around and complain and be a part of the problem. Everyone here who doesn't recycle, or buy American, or doesn't live within their means...everyone carrying a credit card balance, a mortgage...throw the first stone...cause you're a part of the problem! Where do you think that money comes from? When you have well over 300 million Americans all in debt up to their whazu's... where do you think that debt gets absorbed? If we all work hard, live responsibly, help our neighbors, we can come out of this being an even better country than ever!

yeah, I've voted D, R & I. But honestly speaking, outside of the odd local election, i don't ever see myself voting Republican again. EVER. I haven't since 1996 (when i was very young and VERY ill-informed).

Coalescing some time around Nixon's "Southern Strategy" the Republican power brokers manged to wed their despicable brand of corporate fascism (& helllo, corporate welfare) to fake Christianity mixed with a healthy dose of racism. And that's what we're dealing with today.

Present me with a fiscally conservative libertarian or independent who's not naive (or faux-naive) about global economics, a jerk about the environment, or is essentially in league with the Religious Right (talk about your filched liberties), and I'll be happy to vote for 'em.

I imagine it's only a matter of time. Their are lots of intelligent, young, 'fiscally conservative' folks out there that want nothing to do with the science-is-bad, gays-are-evil, people-with-funny-names-are-terrorists brand of horseshit that's been the Republican mantra for far too long now.

Obviously no getting you to admit you're not all-knowing TT. So let it be. But I admired the guy for not pretending and cussed that I didn't get it on video. In fact, that's the moment when I turned on my audio recorder and left it running in my jacket pocket---so I would be able to have at least a crappy audio recording even if I was shooting stills. Missing that quote was a prompt to change my behavior so for me it was a defining moment on this particular job.

"How many of you out there are right wingers?" he may have asked. It might have been that unadorned. I might be letting the later well-documented "radical" comments color my memory because this was all interlaced. It was all part of the build up to the "if this is what people call extreme I'm proud to be extreme" portion of the speech. He's a good populist speaker and it was a logical piece of rhetorical architecture. I don't know who you think you're fooling by trying to pretend that this wasn't all a big Rightie cliche. But it's almost cute.

"Tax the illegal Mexican?" "Oboma?" This show had it all.

I was even told I needed to put my camera up by the woman near the end of the video who insisted I somehow owed the man I was shooting some deep gratitude. I was floored. I'd been completely respectful, just doing my job like the rest of the media. Guess I just looked like a dirty hippy. It made the experience complete.

Never claimed to be bipartisan, TT. I see no automatic value in it. If there was a Republican out there who didn't shit his or her pants at the thought of doing or saying anything off script, and who wasn't also a mental case, I might consider it, if my only other choice were Prince Mongo, and nothing larger were at stake, like control of a house or senate.

Well, anyway, my middle class tax cut came through, so I don't see anything to protest here. I'm certainly not going to stand up for people who have never stood up for me - i.e. the very rich. And before you accuse me of engaging in class warfare, let me say hell yes and about time, too, as the warfare has been going on since people have been people, but mostly it consists of them shooting at us and us thanking them for paying us to be targets of their sport. That's a protest I could get behind.

Really, TT?

"Watermelon" is the best you could come up with?

re Jeff: ok....we've established that you are incapable of a nonpartisan position....you are engaging in class warfare. It's not my fault that you can't find a way to become....as you say..."rich". Rich and hard work are joined at the hip in America...so are poor and lazy. I resent you thinking that you have some fucking right to come into my house ...take some of my money...to fill some fucking void in your life because you are a) to stupid, b) too lazy or c) both...to make your own way in life. Dude...if you can make it in this country....you aren't trying. I employ people ....I meet a six figure payroll every week....they drive forklifts....they run calculators.....they do all sorts of things that are valuable to our business. They earn their money and I pay them. That's the deal.....that's how it works. You don't have a clue about how this economy works.

re Jeff: ok....we've established that you are incapable of a nonpartisan position....you are engaging in class warfare. It's not my fault that you can't find a way to become....as you say..."rich". Rich and hard work are joined at the hip in America...so are poor and lazy. I resent you thinking that you have some fucking right to come into my house ...take some of my money...to fill some fucking void in your life because you are a) too stupid, b) too lazy or c) both...to make your own way in life. Dude...if you can't make it in this country....you aren't trying. I employ people ....I meet a six figure payroll every week....they drive forklifts....they run calculators.....they do all sorts of things that are valuable to our business. They earn their money and I pay them. That's the deal.....that's how it works. You don't have a clue about how this economy works. You can shit your own pants for all I care.

Did anyone see the crowd down in Tallahasseem FL who were punk'd by the Tea bagging interloper who asked "how many of you are making under $250,000" and the crowd went wild. Then, he said, "Well, all of you got a tax CUT under Obama" and the crowd booed the hell out of him. Let's face it people--this is the Racist, Know-Nothing, Secessionist crowd who prides themselves on being totally effing stupid. They can't get enough of the Dittohead/FOX News Kool-Aid. Can't drink it fast enough. Mostly, they are pissed because a black guy is living in the White House.

re Americanwoman: Well said my dear. There must be more accountability in our society. I only buy American when it it makes sense for me to do that. I buy German cars....because they are the best. Competition is what America used to be really good at...but I wonder if we can still do it.....

re wvfi: so.....hmmm...was that a yes or a no....I couldn't tell...from all the foaming at the mouth. Sweetie...you are too young to know your ass from a hole in the stall....so...do us all a favor....vote for the Whale party next time around...and don't fuck up the real election...ok? ;-)

re Rantboy: No....nobody saw that.

re Chris: damn.....you just barely missed recording something that wasn't even said. Man...that's really bad luck. Maybe you made it all up and now you are stuck in this really embarrassing place with every one watching......and wondering....what will you come up with next. :-)

re Chris: by the way.....Mark Skoda is a Democrat.......but I'm sure you already knew that....and...sort of forgot to mention it. Right?? Totally unbiased reporting from the world class Memphoflyer's cub...er...ace reporter.

re Fancycwabs:..I kinda liked it. ;-)....I can do much mo better.....but I don't take no bait sista.

I'm just pleased that they got someone related to Sister Myotis to be their speaker, Amen?

thought thinker, have one of your own (thought that is).

Corporate lobbying and PR firms hatched your "grassroots" (read astroturf) tea party and Faux News and the conservative talk jocks promoted it. Y'all are a bunch of lemmings that followed their lead without question.

I don't have a problem with a lot of what was purported to motivate the protests--hell, I think the Federal Reserve and the IRS are unconstitutional--but the bottom line is y'all were USED to advance a political goal of undermining Obama's presidency.

I'm feelin ya, sbanbury. Old Dick Armey is laughing his happy ass all the way to his Cayman Island bank knowing he lobbied for Merrill, Lehman, and AIG to get TARP money but has now got all the Palin peasants with pitchforks believing he's protesting it. Gotta admit, that's pretty funny!! The entertainers at FAUX News and on Fatboy Radio are better than David Copperfield at performing magic with their right wing propaganda. The poor fools are so busy hating Obama, they don't even know they've been scammed by the corporate lobbyists, PR firms, and media!!

I was surprised Chippy Saltsman was not there leading everyone in a stanza of "Barrack the Magic Negro". When you strip it all down, that's the real burr under the skin of the tea-baggers. Oh, they bray and rant about taxes and deficits, but didn't give a damn about it when Bush spent us into oblivion. What's really eating at them is they can't stand it that a black man is living in the White House. So the New RepubliKKKan Party is really the Old RepubliKKKan Party.

re sbanbury: yawn.... that's pretty lame and totally irrelevant to the discussion of taxes and gov't spending run amuk. I'm curious about you hatred of corporations though...what's up with that? Remember...if it's good for business...it's good for America.

"Remember...if it's good for business...it's good for America."

I agree with the caveat that what's good for business in the LONG TERM is good for America. Too often short-sightedness or just good old fashioned assholery has led to deregulation, fraud, etc. which gets us to where we are today (see also: Savings & Loan scandal; the Enron, WorldCom, et al scandals that led to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act).

I realize that govenment is ineffecient and bloated, but Corporate America has proven time & time again it is incapable of self-regulation. I honestly don't know all the answers, but I do know that 100% hands off ain't it...

To: left wing cracker
It's not about black or white and it's not about
Republican or Democrat. It is about this Congress
and this President passing bills that are not in
the long-term interest of the American people. I
don't need a President to travel the globe apologizing for me. I don't need 65% of Congress
spending our kids and grandkids future for studies
on the stench of pig feces. The budget that they
passed (without reading) smells worse than any pig
I've ever been around and will certainly have much
more long lasting repercussions. For my part, Clinton, "Dubya" Bush, Obama and congress are traitors to the American people. And I would love
the chance to tell each one of them to their face.

RantBOY needs to get a life. Just like Cracker who
tries to make every black/white. Nobody prodded me to go to the tea party. I went because I believe in Red, White & Blue not black/white or
republican/democrat. Clinton started all the banking scandal, Bush did not protect the borders,
Obama's trying to bankrupt us (with the help of most of congress). Add in Barney Franks and that
deluded nancy pelosi and you have all the makings
of a socialist catastrophe -- and you can ask the
russians how long it takes to get out from under
that. Tell me one thing that Obama/Congress has
done that actually serves the long-term best interest of the WORKING AMERICAN PEOPLE - not the
illegal immigrants, not those on welfare that could work but choose not too. Obama is on the
path to destroy this country so you better be practicing up on your Chinese and/or Spanish so
you can teach Your kids how to apply for welfare.

Slickmiller--- FYI,dude. I HAVE a life and a JOB. On Wednesday, while all you dumb clucks with your teabag hats were parading around the poor Boyscouts, waving your phony signs and singing your hymns, I was busting my hump and paying taxes, which keep up that park you were in, buddy. Take your sanctimony and moralizing to some blog with fools who will actually believe you.

"Bush did not protect the borders"

if only that were the worst of it...
i don't care where your party affiliations lay, sometimes i get the feeling that folks don't fully appreciate how thoroughly his administration RUINED us. our great-great grandchildren will still be grappling with the scope of his folly.

from the WSJ, a pretty fair rundown of Bush's legacy in my humble estimation:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/seve…{364DFD37-1A69-46D3-BA45-A24095FD1666}

Obama's gambit might pay off; i really don't think anyone can answer that for now.

Hey Slick--I guess it wasn't a "socialist castrophe" when Bush's lackey,Hank Paulson, got a blank check for TARP money for his buds on Wall Street?? Bush signed off on big, fat, Socialism--with a capital S dude, but now all of a sudden, you're blaming Obama when he's trying to stimulate the economy by spending money on infrastructure projects?? Your hypocrisy is so lame, man. Have you ever read a history book? Do you know what Herbert Hoover did when he was facing the Great Depression? He CUT federal spending, which led to a deflationary spiral, and a fall in aggregate demand of goods!! The only thing you tea baggers understand about the economy is Republican BS about tax cuts, which never really happens when you're borrowing and spending like Bush did on the Iraq war. Tell me you're pissed at being the #1 Debtor nation--indebted to China-- and then, I'll give you some respect.

tt, corporations should only exist to pool the resources of investors to achieve a defined goal. After achieving the goal defined by their charter, they should be dissolved and their remaining or accrued assets distributed to their shareholders. If the assets aren't there or for real, the investors should take their loss (read no bailouts).

That we have allowed corporations to exist and hold property in perpetuity is contrary to the purpose of our nation's birth in opposition to the non representational ed rule of the Crown colony corporations.

re sbanbury: I agree with your comment regarding bailout. I don't support a single dime of taxpeyer bailout money going to anyone....corporations...or individuals. The rest of your comment made absolutely no sense to me. A coprorations has the same legal standing as an individual therefore I see no reason why it can't on asset fr as long as it's shareholders choose to do so. Raising capital is only one purpose of a corporation...I think you are naive on this issue...the corporation predates our young democracy...by the way.

re wvfii: I'm guessing that you don't work in a business or own a business.....I can assure you that there is no marketplace in this country that is 100% free of regulation. Probably half of my admin costs are related to complying with some local, state or federal regulation. Excessive regulation stifles growth and consumes capital. SOX has done nothing to promote clean balance sheets...but is does employ tens of thousands of lawyers, accountants and do-nothing bureaucrats.

TT is right - the corporation predates the founding of America. One of the earliest and largest was the British East India company.

Remember them? They're the company who owned the tea dumped in Boston Harbor, in protest, by the way, not of taxation, but of the lack of taxation granted by the British crown to the British East India company. BEI was able to undercut the local American tea merchants and run them out of business.

So yes, the corporation has a long and storied history, and America was founded in part in reaction against the excessive power wielded by massive transnational corporations like the East India Company.

TT would have made a good Tory. He assumes that just because I advocate for social justice it is because I am poor and lazy and want a free ride. Turns out I'm not poor, nor lazy, nor looking for a free ride, and if I am one day rich thanks to my own efforts and talents, I plan not to forget what got me there or where I came from. It's people like Thoughtless Thinker who are the ones advocating for a free ride - they want to enjoy the benefits of civilization without having to pay for it, much less bother their beautiful minds with anything so challenging to their entire moral identity as the possibility that there are poor people who are not lazy, and rich people who are.

re Jeff: Your comments about BEI although interesting are not factual as stated. The rebellion was against Britain...not BEI....trust me on this one. I can assure you that I would not have been a Tory...can't figure out how you reached that conclusion. Also, I can't figure out how you think I am looking for a free ride...I never said that. I don't realy care if any one is rich or poor or all that falls in between....as long as they got where they are through their own circumstances....not by having the government reach into somebdy's pocket...extract a little coin...and send it down the street to some one else. Also, remembering where you came from is cool...if you want to give a little back is even better......just don't use the government to do it. Write a check from your own bank account...not mine.

TT- what business do you own? I'm asking so I can make sure none of my hard-earned money goes into it.

TT: Also, I can't figure out how you think I am looking for a free ride...I never said that either. But how do you think those roads and bridges that make capitalism possible got built - by reaching into somebody's pocket and sending it down the street to someone else. Scientific advances in medicine, technology, aircraft - all manner of things that give us the life we know - are funding in large part by taking money out of somebody's pocket and sending it down the street. And if you have elderly parents or grandparents, their ability to live independent lives thanks to better medical care, or to be taken care of when they can't anymore, without that financial burden being placed on you, is largely thanks to taking money out of somebody's pocket and sending it down the street to the people you love.

How would throwing their own tea into the harbor (destroying their own property) have been a protest against unfair taxation? Really, I have no reason to trust you on this one. That was BEI tea they dumped in the harbor. They dumped it because they knew with the BEI's crown-mandated competitive advantage of duty-free tea, they couldn't compete.

The revolution was against britain, but the tea party was against the British East India company. Not against taxes on American tea, but against the lack of taxes on BEI tea. Corporations have been around for a long time, and corporate welfare has been around almost as long.

"I can assure you that there is no marketplace in this country that is 100% free of regulation."

I didn't mean to imply there was. I meant to say that 100% unchecked capitalism will fail just as spectaculary as socialism, given a long enough timeline. Both can be made to sound air-tight on paper, but unfortunately neither account for some of mankind's more unsavory attributes.

"Probably half of my admin costs are related to complying with some local, state or federal regulation.

I imagine that sucks, but hey, it's the cost of doing biz. obviously i'm not aware of your situation, but i can see where the small business owner gets leaned on a bit heavy in a lot of respects. On the other hand, letting mega-corporations run wild, hoovering up the public resources and exploiting the tax breaks of cities which they'll leave in the dust the minute they figure a way to move operations overseas is some real bullshit imho.


"SOX has done nothing to promote clean balance sheets...but is does employ tens of thousands of lawyers, accountants and do-nothing bureaucrats."

won't argue this...

and i want to reiterate, Im no fan of unchecked spending or raising taxes. But I do think I am a realist. Did we really think that letting our infrastructure go to hell wouldn't eventually bite us in the ass? There were many moderate & conservative economists who spoke out loudly against W's ill-advised tax cuts (W's 1st Treasury Sec, for one), some suggesting that we use our budget surplus (fuckin a, remember that?) prudently and CONSERVATIVELY in order to deal with those issues.

...But instead Bush & Cheney lie us into the second most costly war in U.S. history? (so far, that is). Did we really think the bill for that debacle wouldn't eventually arrive in the mail?

Letting healthcare & pharmaceutical lobbyists more or less dictate public health policy for eons (& to be fair, the Democrats are nearly as culpable as Republicans for this) wasn't going to ultimately end up with 47 million Americans without health insurance and many millions more underinsured? It's going to cost us one way or another, you can bet on that.

Lord, teach that poor child to sing!!!!

tt, the fact that corporations existed prior to our country was implicit in my comment--I suggest that the motivation behind American independence was largely a dissatisfaction with the distribution of wealth under the management of the crown colony corporations.

And, no, I am not naive about corporations. I firmly and rationally believe that a living breathing person should have MORE rights than a fictitious person created by charter. A corporation existing and holding property in perpetuity has huge advantage over a living, breathing person who will eventually die and pay taxes for it. It is patently unfair.

re sbanbury: I agree with you....so can I count on your support in abolishing the death tax? No of course not. You don't see that the problem is the dead farmer's estate paying half his net worth to the government as I do...you see the problem as not being able to get taxes from the corp. Big difference mon ami.

re wvfii: grow up child....you don't make any sense. Did you actually read what you typed? Quit wasting our time and generating green house gases.

re Jeff: I can't tell what point you are trying to make. The issue is taxes....not tea.....not corporations or any imagined welfare program you ascribe to them. Here's a news flash: Businesses don't pay taxes.....customers pay taxes through higher prices. The founding fathers decided that they were not going to pay any more taxes. Also, it not a question of zero taxes versus all taxes. Obviously there must be some level of taxation to support the common interest of society. I submit that we are paying too much and we are paying for things not in the best interest of society. Why can a private company patch a pothole with one man and one shovel while government needs five men leaning on shovels? Government is inefficient and should exist at a minimal level. It's really pretty simple...I think you are just being truculent.

re Concerned Memphian: Do you really think I'm going to tell you my business....here?? Actually, there is a very good chance that you or someone you know has my company's product in their home. 40% of our sales are repeat sales and multi-generational.

"I submit that we are paying too much and we are paying for things not in the best interest of society. "

ok smart guy, let's see your detailed plan re: "the best interest of society"

as for not making any sense - i don't know how to say it any more clearly that ignorant, shortsighted, risky policies will come back to haunt us every time.

FYI i've worked in the private sector my entire life

tt, do you always go around presupposing everyone else's beliefs?

Believe it or not, not everybody falls into 2 neatly defined groups.

Actually, I'm all about abolishing the estate tax.

And, I'm not talking about taxing corporations, I'm talking about revoking their charters when they don't serve the public interest.

never try to teach a pig to sing. it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

sbanbury, we don't agree all the time, but i gotta agree with you on this one...

i don't agree with me all the time either

re wvfii: I apologize for being so over the top with you in my earlier post. As B pointed out...I was annoyed> :-) I completely agree with you that ignorant, shortsighted and risky policies will come back to haunt. That is precisely why I am opposed to the gigantic increases in federal spending being proposed. I'm sure you feel the same way based upon your statement.

re sbanbury: I missed your call to eliminate the estate tax. If you want corporations to be born with a required expiration date...or justify their existance as relates to some "public interest" then go for it. Lobby your congressman. Good luck. Fact is, corporations don't exist for the benefit of the public...they exist for the benefit of the sharholders. Of course there are laws (millions of them) to be followed. If a company is violating the law...then it should be held accountable.....just like a "real" person. By the way, there are two neatly defined groups...those who pay taxes and those who don't. Can't be half-pregnant.

that's the problemo... much of the time, the public interest and the shareholders' interest are divergent.

re B: not a problemo.....the public doesn't get a vote.......only shareholders.

"Teabagging" is an EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE SEXUAL reference. "Conservative 'teabaggers' do it in public" is just as offensive. I expect the Memphis Flyer to remove this report immediately as my children and other children were present at this non-violent, non-partisan gathering. This is not journalism it is sarcastic inuendo without social merit!

Dear TP, you know that TP is a reference to something too, don't you?
I very nearly took my children with me but am glad I didn't. I'm not ready to explain why people are toting pitchforks and displaying images of the President with bullet holes in his head. Granted, none of that is nearly as offensive as the word teabag.

re MemphisTP:..don't worry...it's ok....almost encouraged...to insult conservatives on this site. These people are not journalists...they are bloggers...therefore immune from and incapable of complying with journalistic standards. Don't be surprised if you get a little arrogance thrown back at you. Fact is...they really don't care....it's their sandbox. But is a lot fun to tweak them back. ;-)

re MemphisTP: See what I mean? Hmmm...Chris Davis....CD....wow...that has a different meaning too....no..must be a coincidence.

If you're insinuating that Chris Davis is in fact, a compact disc, then I can honestly say I've met the fellow enough times to assure you he is not.

Yes indeed--- Deepest apologies to all Republicans for using the term you guys used for yourselcves until you "got hip" to the notion that the term might have more than one meaning.

Their next coordinated plan will be called "Operation Donkey Punch" and will be followed up by an anti-immigration rally called "The Dirty Sanchez".

re Tom: I can't recall seeing the term used in any political sense by anyone before this protest took place. I'm sure you mean Tea Party. No...I was not insinuating that Chris Davis (aka CD) was anything. My whatever do you mean? ;-)

Word on the street is the next coordinated plan for the tea baggers is to have a hood and sheet washing at the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest.

I thought CD was a Certificate of Deposit.

Civil Defense?

re CD:....no that's not it.....keep trying... ;-)

re rant: hmmmm.....certificate of deposit...I don't know if he gets a certificate...you will have to ask him.

Re: "As a Cub Scout leader, I'm very disappointed that some Scout leader decided to parade his boys at this Faux News event."

Not sure if you were at the event but the Boy Scouts presented the American flag, lead in the Pledge of Alligence, and National Anthem and then the leader talked about the importance of Boy Scouts and how the answer to our Nation's problems doesn't reside in a political party but in the character building of our youth. Sounded like a message that everyone needed to hear.

You mean like the kind of "character building for youth" called Youth for Hitler??? What a crock, Roll. The Faux News propagandists were using the Boy Scouts, or anyone else they could find, as TOOLS, for their corporatism/militarism/nationalism
fascism.

I take it from your comment that you were offended by something that the leader had said, if so what was it that he said that would lend you to think it was Hilter Youth. That's a pretty strong statement to make. I think if you did hear his message you wouldn't have made that comment. It was one that everyone, conservatives, liberals and all Americans needed to hear. The message had nothing to do with politics but about reaching out to our youth. If that message, the honoring of our American flag and country with the pledge of allegiance and singing of our national anthem is considered Hitler youth and fascist then it is a sad day in America.

re Roll: ignore rantboy.......he's disturbed.....no amount of rational appeals will pierce his hatred.

Roll, you're right, I wasn't at the event, I was busy working so I could pay my taxes.

My problem is that the Boy Scouts were used as programming at an event where history revisionists were carrying signs mocking the President of the United States.

Despite the claims that this was a non-partisan event, it clearly was right of center-right.

TT--if living in reality and pointing out the neo-fascism tendencies of the Republican party counts as being disturbed, then I am guilty as charged, dude.
Fortunately, the majority of Americans share my same "disturbed" concerns over the belicose, hateful rhetoric of the right wing minority. You don't find the governor of one of the largest states in the country threatening secession disturbing? You don't find the House Minority Whip calling for "war" with the President's party to be disturbing? You don't find Michelle Bachman's comments about our President setting up "re-education" camps for American kids to be disturbing? You don't find Rush Limbaugh's daily rants i.e. "I want Obama to fail" to be disturbing? They are worse than disturbing. They are treasonous. But you somehow find MY comments to be disturbed and frightening?? LOL!!

The GOP celebrates stupidity, they've bastardized the word "conservative", they use scaremongering & cherry-picked non-facts to advance their ignorant, dickish agenda. The life support they get from the Hannity-Beck-Limbaugh idiot echo chamber can't last forever. The intelligent, moderate, old-school Republicans are dying off and are being replaced by jingoistic morons. And it's kind of sad, I guess. We definitely need the two-party system (or multiple, actually), so I've no problem with a *right-of-center party (when it comes to fiscal matters), even if I'll likely disagree at times.


*and only fiscal. I've got no time for cultural/ social conservatives. It's time they go the way of the dodo. Frankly speaking there's no one more un-American than these dudes.

hmmmm......it's obvious who the fascists are in these posts.

wffii---I'm with ya dude on the fiscal thing, but the Republican Party is nothing more than an extension of the Christian fundamentalist fanatics, so they don't give a crap about anything OTHER than the cultural/social issues. If it ain't about abortion, gay marriage or guns--they don't care. I have a co-worker who prides herself on being a "staunch" Republican. She is a one issue voter and that issue is abortion. Right now, she is apoplectic over Gov. Sebelius being confirmed as HHS Secretary even though our country is facing a health crisis and needs a HHS Secretary. The reason? Gov. Sebelius is pro-choice. See what I mean? Republicans are completely nuts.

re rant: What is wrong with the way your friend has chosen to be politically involved? She has chosen a valid issue that means a lot to her. Why do you feel the need to denigrate her for what she believes in? Please explain why she is nuts. Talk about intolerance....

haha... blame my "intolerance" on being home sick last Saturday night and medicated. To clarify, I've absolutely no problem with social conservatives - as long as they are not affecting PUBLIC policy. Being socially conservative is something for yourself, your kids, your home, your church. Keep it there. Gay marriage doesn't affect heterosexaul marriage one iota. It just doesn't. NOM, morons from "The Corner", @sshole Republicans south of the Mason-Dixon, etc. can spout all the platitude-filled fervor and inanity they want, the fact remains: same sex marriage (or civil unions) WILL NOT INVALIDATE hetero marriage. In fact, why the hell is the govt involved in the marriage business at all? Everybody (consenting adults, two at a time only, obviously) should be "civilly united" as far as legalities are concerned. Leave ceremonial "marriage" the the church. So. Baptist churches can refuse to marry whomever they want; liberal churches can do otherwise, etc.

The far right will not shut up about compromised liberties, but they always forget about the other side of that equation (i.e. social liberties). Can't have it both ways, guys.

re wifi: Hope you feeling better. So let me get this straight. Social conservatives are prohibited from influencing PUBLIC policy...but social liberals are not. What constitution are you living under? Again....intolerance on parade. We social conservatives have exactly the same right to influence PUBLIC policy as you do....That's the whole point...free expression of ideas. Facsism is what you are espousing.

the problem is that when social conservatives impact public policy, it affects "the pursuit of happiness" every bit as much as taxes, regulations, bureacracy, etc.

the great thing about so many "socially liberal" concepts is that people who disagree can just not participate, imbibe, what have you. when social conservatives influence policy it's restricitive, and it affects me in my own home; it's antithetical to "We hold these truths..." i.e. my rights end where my neighbor's begin

for what it's worth, I was raised Southern Baptist in Mississippi and have no substantial qualms with the 2nd ammendment. But I'll be damned if my personal proclivites, experiences, habits should dictate what others do, & vice versa. (short of bodily harm, property damage, etc.)

i'm simply putting it out there: if the Republican party is going to spuriously lay claim to the party of liberty, they need to understand that it means more than just a flat tax and massive (& often imprudent) deregulation.

In general social conservatives want to proscribe rights, while social liberals look to expand or establish rights. Social conservatives seem happiest when others are miserable and most miserable when others are happy. It's not enough for social conservatives to live their lives the way they want, they want the laws to force others to live according to their religious beliefs. Not enough for them to be Christians, they want America to be a CHRISTIAN NATION!!! (and not just ANY kind of Christian nation, but an Evangelical Fundamentalist Protestant one).

social conservatives are idiots. just like fiscal liberals. it isn't ok for a bank to shout OPM. but it is for the government. and social conservatives need to stay out of letting people do what people do. we need less blue and red and more purple.

re wifi: you couldn't have it more wrong. What you are suggesting is a social free for all....no rules, no responsibilities. It's ridiculous. I don't see anything restrictive about protecting the life of an unborn child...or prohibiting the use of heroin.....or prohibiting an adult from abusing a child. You don't want rules because you don't want to be judged. A liberal world is a scary place. re 38103: more name calling....nothing to add. I can assure you that I am no idiot...I'm not sure you can make the same claim with any degree of certainty.

what a joke. it was liberals (including republicans) who fought for civil rights for black people, TT. Conservatives opposed them. They said the same thing you say now: that liberals advocated a social free for all with no rules (and the subtext of black men chasing white women). It was a lie then and its a lie now. But frankly, you social conservatives (the reason I left the GOP) have already lost the battle. Abortion won't go away and gay marriage is here to stay. Go pray about it. You and marilyn Loeffel can organize something at bellevue.

Packrat, same for me, dude. To paraphrase the immortal words of Ronnie Raygun, I didn't leave the Republican Party, it left me. Okay, TT, I will explain why my co-worker is nuts and why I am not being intolerant by saying she is nuts. Every reasonable person where I work, regardless of their political affiliation, believes she's nuts!! First of all, she didn't just choose a "valid issue that means a lot to her". This is a woman who has been OBSESSED with the subject of abortion for over twenty years. She is a buddy to abortion fanatic Randall Terry and tells everyone at work that he is her "hero". She took time off from work when the Terry Shiavo case was going and went to Florida to protest Ms. Shiavo's husband. She came back to work and called Mr. Shiavo a "murderer". She thinks that the people who are serving time for bombing abortion clinics are "heroes". She comments constantly, while at work, about how Obama is "murdering the innocent". She has told everyone in our office that she is protesting Obama's commencement speech at Notre Dame on May 20, because he is a "baby killer" who has been invited to appear on a Catholic--supposedly anti-abotion---campus. This woman is obviously mentally ill, as she turns every single political issue into an issue regarding "life" and how Democrats are against "life." She is myopic and has no grasp on reality. Her mind has been twisted by her fundamentalist religion, which she constantly wants to discuss by telling anyone within earshot that if you don't believe in Jesus, you are going to hell. She is denigrating and name calling anyone who does not subscribe to her beliefs. The woman is a total fanatic. She was in Audubon Park with the tea-baggers because she told everyone at work that it was her chance to "stand up for life" by protesting Democrats, "the party of death" and most especially Obama, who wants to "kill the helpless and innocent among us." On Monday, I suppose she will be apoplectic concerning President Obama's choices for the Supreme Court. She calls herself a "staunch conservative", but clearly, she is totally radical. These are just the facts, TT. Do with them what you want.

a couple of things:

1. nobody is "pro" abortion.

2. if the religious right were really concerned about massively reducing the abortion rate, they would get behind easily accessible contraception and COMPREHENSIVE sex education. contrary to (local) popular belief, doing so does NOT equal condoning pre-marital sex. "blue" states have demonstrably lower abortion rates that "red" - why is that?? better-educated kids = more informed decisions with regards to sex (and everything else, frankly) -- it's just hard numbers.**

So we can sit around and wring our hands over morality and highly subjective readings of constitutional law, or the left and right can come together on something that would actually REDUCE the number of abortions. guess who the hold-outs are?


**All but one of the ten states with the LOWEST rates of abortion are considered “LIBERAL” :

1 Massachusetts 2.4
2 Connecticut 2.8
3 New Jersey 3.0
4 Rhode Island 3.2
5 New York 3.3
6 Pennsylvania 3.3
7 Wisconsin 3.4
8 North Dakota 3.4 ("conservative")
9 Maryland 3.5
10 Minnesota 3.6

All but one of the Sixteen states with the HIGHEST rates of abortion are considered “CONSERVATIVE” :

35 Texas 5.4
36 Alaska 5.5
37 Washington 5.6 ("liberal")
38 Mississippi 5.7
39 Kentucky 5.8
40 Arizona 5.8
41 Florida 5.9
42 New Mexico 6.0
43 Idaho 6.2
44 Alabama 6.2
45 Indiana 6.6
46 Wyoming 6.5
47 Tennessee 6.6
48 Oklahoma 6.7
49 Arkansas 7.1
50 Nevada 9.0

[Compiled from Center for Disease Control, National Center for Health Statistics; and Election Results from CNN.]

also worth noting - divorce rates in red states are significantly higher than those in blue states. look it up.

don't confuse neo-con fundamentalists with facts, dude.

I will print this out and show it to the lady zealot at work,but unfortunately, the facts never stop her from railing about how all Democrats, especially Obama, are "murderers of the unborn". As a matter of fact,facts usually make her angrier, louder, and more self-righteous. The whole point of my sharing this is that this woman and her anti-abortion, fundamentalist Christian friends are the most powerful, organized force within the Republican Party and if Republicans ever want Independents or Moderates to vote with them again, they must do something about these people, as they are truly out of touch with reality.(And are proud of being out of touch.) Before the election, I asked her why, if she's so sure that abortion(and contraception-- as she believes it to be a "form" of abortion) is the heinous evil, that she claims, doesn't she and her friends advocate for criminalizing it and locking up women who get them or locking up couples who use contraception. I am still waiting for an answer.

BTW-her SUV is plastered with Palin '12 stickers.
She said McCain is "liberal" and that if the Republican party runs another "liberal" like him, she will vote for Ron Paul.

Arrrghhhh!!! apologies, rantboy (and everyone else). those numbers above were c & p'd from the wrong spot. those are DIVORCE rates, not abortion rates. I will track down the abortion numbers and post them.

again, very sorry for the confusion.

yeah dudes, having a hard time tracking down a comparative list from a reputable source. What I do find is that the highest and lowest rates are fairly split on redness & blueness... i do think it's important to remember that while Mississippi has a relatively low number, there is only one place in the entire state to legally obtain an abortion. this means a lot of women cross state lines, so definitive stats are pretty tricky.

again, numbers I posted earlier are NOT correct. my apologies for inadvertently spreading misinformation on the internets....

Hey bro, don't worry about it. Besides, like I said before, the facts do NOT matter to the people like this woman. When confronted with facts, they close their eyes, put their fingers in their ears, and shake their heads...na-na-na-na-na-na....I can't hear you....na-na-na-na-na-na

wow....this is too weird for me

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